why are there so few people with asperger's employed?

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Abcrone
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10 Jan 2014, 12:13 pm

I was reading an article saying only 15% percent of people with Asperger's are employed and I was just curious why is that?



Meistersinger
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10 Jan 2014, 12:58 pm

Because we don't fit in with the rest of the crowd.



Troy_Guther
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10 Jan 2014, 1:08 pm

Because the significant majority of jobs in Western countries are now service jobs, a type of job that our deficiencies make especially difficult.



Fnord
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10 Jan 2014, 1:10 pm

As a person with AS/ASD who is employed, and who participates in the hiring process, I can provide a few basic answers.

People are not employed because:

1. They do not apply for positions that they are qualified for by virtue of their skills.

- Too far away.
- Unpleasant (but not unsafe) working conditions.
- Unwilling to take an entry-level position.

2. They apply for positions that they are not qualified for by virtue of their skills.
- Lack of college or university degree.
- Lack of experience.

3. They fail the screening process.
- False claims of education or experience.
- Illegal drug use.
- Legal issues (i.e. criminal record, driving record, police record, et cetera).
- On-line postings of an anti-social nature.
- On-line postings of questionable moral content (e.g. "selfies" of nudity and disorderly conduct).
- Poor eye contact.
- Poor maths skills.
- Poor social skills.
- Poor verbal and writing skills.
- Poor work history (e.g., multiple firings, sackings, or other dismissals).

4. They get the job, but fail to perform, and are dismissed.



aspiemike
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10 Jan 2014, 1:15 pm

A lot of jobs in Western Culture as pointed out are service oriented jobs. Western Culture and the job market have making money and being profitable as the bottom line. You have to be motivated to be a team player and very social and interpersonal to work such jobs. While people with Aspergers can be capable of it, many people with Aspergers may not be able to cope with the stress and the social aspect of the job. It is possible that many people with Aspergers are more introverted than extroverted. These jobs are geared towards extroverts.

Likewise, your intelligence can be better utilized working independently.
This is for big money making though: You can use your intelligence on focusing on a big idea that you can sell to companies. But you will need to make connections and find a group of people or a partner that can work with you and guide you towards the right market.


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Your Aspie score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 88 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Last edited by aspiemike on 10 Jan 2014, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aspiemike
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10 Jan 2014, 1:23 pm

Fnord wrote:
As a person with AS/ASD who is employed, and who participates in the hiring process, I can provide a few basic answers.

People are not employed because:

1. They do not apply for positions that they are qualified for by virtue of their skills.

- Too far away.
- Unpleasant (but not unsafe) working conditions.
- Unwilling to take an entry-level position.

2. They apply for positions that they are not qualified for by virtue of their skills.
- Lack of college or university degree.
- Lack of experience.

3. They fail the screening process.
- False claims of education or experience.
- Illegal drug use.
- Legal issues (i.e. criminal record, driving record, police record, et cetera).
- On-line postings of an anti-social nature.
- On-line postings of questionable moral content (e.g. "selfies" of nudity and disorderly conduct).
- Poor eye contact.
- Poor maths skills.
- Poor social skills.
- Poor verbal and writing skills.
- Poor work history (e.g., multiple firings, sackings, or other dismissals).

4. They get the job, but fail to perform, and are dismissed.


This applies to everyone and not just anyone diagnosed with labels.
And as for criminal records where I work... if you have one before the interview process, you will not get hired (government job, and it doesn't matter what is on the record). But if you end up getting a DUI after the fact, you may still end up keeping your job. However, the one thing you never want to have put on your Criminal record is theft. Stealing is the biggest thing most employers are worried about from what I have experienced.


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Your Aspie score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 88 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


thewhitrbbit
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10 Jan 2014, 1:32 pm

People with AS may struggle with the interviews due to anxiety and eye contact issues.

People with AS may come off as arrogant, unintentionally.

People with AS often believe that being right is the most important thing, and don't' know when to shut up. "Consider the cost of being right."

People with AS may have anxiety or sensory issues that make working difficult.

People with AS may be unwilling (or sometimes unable) to adapt to working.

People with AS may have executive function issues.

One of the challenges is figuring out how to employ people with AS, while not hurting the bottom line.



michael517
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10 Jan 2014, 1:52 pm

Where did you get that 15% number? Have a website?

Sorry, but I work in a company that needs quite a few Engineers (including me), and although I won't call them out on it, I see Aspie traits like talking too much about themselves. Obviously they all work. You mean to say for every 15 of us, there are 85 others?

Also all of my brothers and sister are employed. I don't want to go too far into details other than to say I think I am the highest on the spectrum and let it go at that. I am the leftie.

In my opinion there would need to be some correlation of where you are on the spectrum, and your likelihood of being unemployed.

If it is of any help, as I recall, I took that test that I believe was authored by Baron-Cohen and came up with the 31.



cubedemon6073
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10 Jan 2014, 1:53 pm

This makes me ask these questions.

1. What do we mean by employed? Do we mean part time, full time, self-employed? What counts as being employed?
2. What are the demographics of the 15% and of the 85%?
3. What are the IQ levels of the 15% and of the 85%
4. What is the social skill level of both groups?
5. What are the personality types of both groups?
6. What do the 15% have in common that the rest of the 85% do not have?
7. Do the 15% have techniques that they developed and used? If yes, what are they? What are in common and what are different?
8. What other comorbid conditions do both groups have? What did the 15% do to overcome them especially if they had to do it on their own?
9. What is their age?
10. Do they have support including monetary?
11. What is their life history?

You answer these questions and you have your answer(s) as to how the 15% are employed and the 85% are not.



Fnord
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10 Jan 2014, 2:30 pm

aspiemike wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As a person with AS/ASD who is employed, and who participates in the hiring process, I can provide a few basic answers.

People are not employed because:

1. They do not apply for positions that they are qualified for by virtue of their skills.

- Too far away.
- Unpleasant (but not unsafe) working conditions.
- Unwilling to take an entry-level position.

2. They apply for positions that they are not qualified for by virtue of their skills.
- Lack of college or university degree.
- Lack of experience.


3. They fail the screening process.
- False claims of education or experience.
- Illegal drug use.
- Legal issues (i.e. criminal record, driving record, police record, et cetera).
- On-line postings of an anti-social nature.
- On-line postings of questionable moral content (e.g. "selfies" of nudity and disorderly conduct).
- Poor eye contact.
- Poor maths skills.
- Poor social skills.
- Poor verbal and writing skills.
- Poor work history (e.g., multiple firings, sackings, or other dismissals).


4. They get the job, but [color=red]fail to perform
, and are dismissed.


This applies to everyone and not just anyone diagnosed with labels.[/quote]
I highlighted in red some of what seems to be the most common issues that Aspies have expressed here on WP.

aspiemike wrote:
... Stealing is the biggest thing most employers are worried about from what I have experienced.

That and workplace violence -- throw a punch and your job is history, even if the punch doesn't land.

And even though harassment-related firings may be increasing (especially. when a man harasses a woman), it's still common that a person can act like a complete and total jerk and as long as he continues to provide a rare and valuable service he will be treated well, praises and even rewarded for being a good employee.



dc2610
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10 Jan 2014, 2:32 pm

Troy_Guther wrote:
Because the significant majority of jobs in Western countries are now service jobs, a type of job that our deficiencies make especially difficult.


This.

I was employed in retail for 5 1/2 years and I ended up in a mental hospital. If I had known I had Asperger's I would've never been there in the first place. Totally wrong type of job for me. That being said, I've had many different jobs and I've hated every one of them. I tend to get bullied at jobs because I'm different.



Arran
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10 Jan 2014, 2:33 pm

How exactly was this figure of 15% determined? Does it represent the entire autistic spectrum or is it restricted to medium to high functioning AS? Are employment rates of people with AS who have a reasonable to excellent level of qualifications significantly lower than that for NT people with similar qualifications?



dc2610
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10 Jan 2014, 2:40 pm

Also this:

"Think what characterizes the really intelligent person:
- they can think for themselves.
- They love abstract ideas.
- They can look dispassionately at the facts.
- Humbug is their enemy.
- Dissent comes easily to them, as does complexity.
These are traits that are not only unnecessary for most business (office) jobs, they are actually a handicap when it comes to rising through the ranks of large companies."

Lucy Kellaway.
"Companies Don't Need Brainy People," Financial Times, 11/22/2004



redrobin62
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10 Jan 2014, 3:33 pm

One day I'm going to analyze why I've had 25 or so jobs in my life. I know that I moved around a lot, was fired from a few, quit most of them, didn't like most of them, kept some for only a few days or weeks, etc. It'd be interesting to pin point if any of those failures were related to autism.



AlanMooresBeard
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11 Jan 2014, 12:34 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
This makes me ask these questions.

1. What do we mean by employed? Do we mean part time, full time, self-employed? What counts as being employed?
2. What are the demographics of the 15% and of the 85%?
3. What are the IQ levels of the 15% and of the 85%
4. What is the social skill level of both groups?
5. What are the personality types of both groups?
6. What do the 15% have in common that the rest of the 85% do not have?
7. Do the 15% have techniques that they developed and used? If yes, what are they? What are in common and what are different?
8. What other comorbid conditions do both groups have? What did the 15% do to overcome them especially if they had to do it on their own?
9. What is their age?
10. Do they have support including monetary?
11. What is their life history?

You answer these questions and you have your answer(s) as to how the 15% are employed and the 85% are not.


I'm guessing that the 15% employed are more likely to be higher functioning and be educated to degree level or higher. Perhaps these are also people who are better at acting NT than most and have managed to find employment relating to their special interests. It is an interesting line of enquiry and I would love to see someone commission some serious research on employment and the autistic spectrum.



Arran
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11 Jan 2014, 2:20 pm

Don't expect anything remotely serious from the NAS!

There is some anecdotal evidence that a sizeable proportion of people with AS who are employed obtained their job through personal connections.