Is this a decent conversation for a 4 year old?

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DT154
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14 Nov 2017, 11:08 am

This is my 4 yr/1 month old talking in the car on the way home from preschool, about Halloween decorations, police cars, having to poop, trees and coconuts. So different things, while kind of staying on topic, is good right? Is this a decent conversation for a 4 yr. old with not-so-sure about Autism? He was evaluated, and it was ruled out, but some days, I think about getting another assessment done. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/user-302983717/49-month-conversation



magz
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16 Nov 2017, 4:52 am

Seems totally OK to me. A lot of intonation and contact, no out-of-place words or statements, nothing ASD-like at all to me.
Why are you so interested in re-evaluating him when he shows nothing unusual?

ED: I read some of your previous posts and thought of HSP traits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_p ... ensitivity
I guess this would explain different behavior in the preschool and less eye contact than expected. He would just retreat to himself when overstimulated. It's not a disorder, it's a trait, maybe not very understood in American culture but perfectly normal. Consider reading the Elaine Aron's book: http://hsperson.com/books/the-highly-sensitive-person/


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DT154
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16 Nov 2017, 12:18 pm

He's still a pretty quiet kid, though. I guess it's just the inconsistency that I wonder about. I mean there are days when he doesn't shut up and there are days, when he'll just say a few sentences an hour. He does a lot of commenting and observation i.e. pointing-stuff-out type of talking. But there's no "Hey Dad, guess what happened at school today? Billy, did this and Mary did that and then the teacher got mad and Bobby got in trouble for pulling Mary's hair and then, this happened and that happened and blah, blah, blah... I would think at 4, kids are talking like this. The most I ever got was once he said he watched a movie and took a nap. Another time, he said Matthew spilled his cookies and Ms. Stacy yelled at him.



ASDMommyASDKid
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17 Nov 2017, 10:10 am

Not all little kids are constant chatterers. The only possible indicator I see in this post is that the conversation is never social and never about other little kids. Does he do playdates? How does he act around peers? Is he reciprocal? If he is, then I don't see anything as being especially autistic.

Does he have any issues at pre-k? Does he seems unhappy? If so, then those issues would be relevant. Otherwise, even if he were a little spectrumy, he really doesn't need any intervention from what it sounds like.



DT154
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17 Nov 2017, 11:27 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Not all little kids are constant chatterers. The only possible indicator I see in this post is that the conversation is never social and never about other little kids. Does he do playdates? How does he act around peers? Is he reciprocal? If he is, then I don't see anything as being especially autistic.

Does he have any issues at pre-k? Does he seems unhappy? If so, then those issues would be relevant. Otherwise, even if he were a little spectrumy, he really doesn't need any intervention from what it sounds like.


Thanks. I'm assuming you have a lot of knowledge, since you seem to be very active on this board.

He's doing very well at pre-K. He's always in a good mood to go and when he comes home, as you can hear on the recording. Never any meltdowns before, or after school. Yesterday when I came to pick him up, he was fully engaged with one of his teachers, holding up a toy in front of her face, smiling and making lots of eye-contact and saying something to her. So, reciprocal, yes. With peers, I've seen this a few times as well- but still, he seems to favor adults. Teachers, and director all say he is a joy to be around, an all-around "adorable" boy, and according to them, he has a couple of friends he likes to "hang around" with. But when he's around kids he doesn't know at the playground, I don't see much interaction if any, at all. I think the fact that he is verbal, and follows directions well, the staff doesn't raise any concerns.

Also I'd like to ask: The video below of him playing with his older brother, is very hard to see bc it was so dark, but he doesn't really show a lot of eye-contact here. At 27 seconds, you can see he has a little eye-contact. But would this be reciprocal anyway? Would this be an example of joint attention?



ASDMommyASDKid
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17 Nov 2017, 3:29 pm

DT154 wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
Not all little kids are constant chatterers. The only possible indicator I see in this post is that the conversation is never social and never about other little kids. Does he do playdates? How does he act around peers? Is he reciprocal? If he is, then I don't see anything as being especially autistic.

Does he have any issues at pre-k? Does he seems unhappy? If so, then those issues would be relevant. Otherwise, even if he were a little spectrumy, he really doesn't need any intervention from what it sounds like.


Thanks. I'm assuming you have a lot of knowledge, since you seem to be very active on this board.

He's doing very well at pre-K. He's always in a good mood to go and when he comes home, as you can hear on the recording. Never any meltdowns before, or after school. Yesterday when I came to pick him up, he was fully engaged with one of his teachers, holding up a toy in front of her face, smiling and making lots of eye-contact and saying something to her. So, reciprocal, yes. With peers, I've seen this a few times as well- but still, he seems to favor adults. Teachers, and director all say he is a joy to be around, an all-around "adorable" boy, and according to them, he has a couple of friends he likes to "hang around" with. But when he's around kids he doesn't know at the playground, I don't see much interaction if any, at all. I think the fact that he is verbal, and follows directions well, the staff doesn't raise any concerns.

Also I'd like to ask: The video below of him playing with his older brother, is very hard to see bc it was so dark, but he doesn't really show a lot of eye-contact here. At 27 seconds, you can see he has a little eye-contact. But would this be reciprocal anyway? Would this be an example of joint attention?



:) There is zero correlation between activity and knowledge on this board and probably on any board, but I appreciate the thought. :)

You are right that you can't infer too much from positive comments from school staff because usually their main concerns are with keeping chaos down to a minimum. Delightful usually translates as compliance unless it is followed with anecdotes that actually indicate the child is being delightful. Classroom observation, if you can manage it, is often helpful. You alter the experiment by observing it of course, but it is better than relying on only the teacher's say-so.

There video is difficult for me to see, but the children seem to playing and interacting with each other, which would be reciprocal, assuming his brother has input in the play and it is not entirely driven by him. Non-reciprocal play is when one kid has to be the boss and won't let the other child have input, but uses him as a prop or an audience or as an actor who takes direction from him.

Eye contact tends to be an over-rated thing. The main benefit to it is that it makes people feel more comfortable when eye-contact is within normal parameters. Too little eye-contact makes a person seem aloof (or weird) and too much comes off as creepy (and also weird). So it makes it easier to socialize when you are in normal range. The other thing is that if you are comfortable with eye-contact, you are in a better position to make observations about someone's facial expressions which is needed to be able to read them, and assists in socializing.

Joint attention is when you the person pointing out things to another person, or checking in with eye-contact to make sure you are both paying attention to the same thing and that kind of thing. It is a social marker.

Playing with adults and mainly siblings can be an indicator, though, if he does not play with peers .Adults and siblings are often more predictable, usually more apt to go along, and easier to play with and much safer from that perspective.



magz
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18 Nov 2017, 10:05 am

Are you living in the US? Because it is a place where even psychologists need to be reminded that introversion is not a disorder.


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18 Nov 2017, 1:47 pm

magz wrote:
Are you living in the US? Because it is a place where even psychologists need to be reminded that introversion is not a disorder.
Also don't forget the inability to give "correct" answers about feelings: shrinks hate it with the violent passion of 1000 Suns :twisted:. OP, teach your son the emotion words he'll need to answer the "feelings" questions correctly. Have him match up emotion terms with common situations he goes through. Treat it as a flash card game of sorts, to make it more fun for him.

At age 4, he doesn't need terms like "frustrated" or "frazzled"; "angry" or "tired" will suffice. (Quite the opposite: the shrink will penalize him for using overly mature words.) But he absolutely must know emotion terms. Otherwise, the shrink will give him so much grief, he could easily develop PTSD from the treatments.

Plus, it's not a bad self-esteem boost, for a 4-year-old to outsmart a full-grown adult. Even if that adult doesn't know their butt from their elbow when it comes to aspie kids' minds.



Last edited by Aspie1 on 18 Nov 2017, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

billegge
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18 Nov 2017, 2:12 pm

I did not hear anything unusual. The parent is the one changing the subjects, the child is following the parent.



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22 Nov 2017, 4:55 pm

There are many "normal" 4-year-old who are chatterboxes one day, and hardly say anything the next day. At that age, kids' emotions are pretty volatile. They get angry easily, but they forgive easily, too. There are even times when perfectly "normal" children in the preschool years "seem" autistic. They spin around. They perseverate. They don't like change/have difficulty in transitions, etc.

I believe, if he has autism, that at least some problems would probably be noted in addition to the "delightful" comments.....like: "he's delightful....BUT......"

When I was 4 years old, I was completely nonverbal, and seemed like I was in "my own world." I had classic autism. How I "came out of it" at around age 5 is anybody's guess.