Family in stress: Does my 8 year old have AS? What's next?

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Hey guys,

I am 41, my wife is 40, and we have 3 kids. Two boys 10 and 8, and my daughter is 5. I am writing about my 8 year old son.

Symptoms:
1 - Social problems: We just found out that he segregates himself from the other children on the playground during recess (he is in 3rd grade). He will "hang-out" with an aide, while engaging in adult like conversations with her. He will never join other children. He also cannot handle crowds of people. Any group frightens him, even family get togethers. Anxiety is at a high if he knows that we are going to some sort of social function as a family. He will demand continuously to the point of embarressment that we need to leave shortly after any arrival at any social event (birthday, graduation, wedding, general visit, barbeque, you get the picture). He also quit basketball last winter after several successful team practices. He had a melt down at his first game. This ended his basketball career, however, he has continued to play baseball (little league) for the fourth season in a row, but, when he made the all-star game, he had a tantrum during the 2nd inning, demanding that he needed to leave the field. Hopefully, he will play next spring. Also, even though he has some friends, he will often segregate himself even if the friend has been invited over to our house. He will usually demand that the friend needs to go home.

2 - General family tension: 90% of all issues in our home, includes my 8 year old son. On the rare occasion that he is not home (spending alone time with a grandparent for example), the house is suddenly calm and peaceful. He is also very physically expressive with anger. He will scratch or punch others without hesitation. (This includes all of us) This does not seem to go along with what I have researched on the web with "aspies", but I am just spilling my guts here with the hope to get some direction. Other common issues: when the family wants hotdogs, he wants hamburgers, get the picture?

3 - Coordination: An odd thing that he was diagnosed with a few years ago was his inability to hop on one foot during a routine doctor check-up. This seems strange because he is well coordinated with basic baseball skills, and his agility is normal. He also HATES to ride a bicycle. Enjoys playing chess and LOVES video games.

4 - Eating: Will frequently spit out food due to gaging. Also, he cannot watch people eat certain foods, nor watch someone brush their teeth. He will gag. He also cannot handle the dentist. We had to have him put out at a hospital in order to take care of a simple filling a year ago. His adult teeth came in with cavities.

5 - Noises and images: Loud sounds and certain visiual images will absolutely freak him out. If the family goes to the movies, my wife and I will have to cover his eyes during any, even remotely scary scenes. (We're talking rated G.) Live music is a problem when loud. Even the PA system at a baseball or hockey game can set him off.

6 - Homework: Handwriting is absolutely terrible, but gets better if he takes his time. Backwords letters, reverse order words and completely illegible words are common. He HATES reading, however, he is incredible with math. Homework is a daily battle, several hours.

7 - Masked Symptoms: He is very tough to handle at home, but is suddenly ok everywhere else. People are shocked at our descriptions of what we go through until an outburst. Then they suddenly "see" what we are describing. This includes teachers. Weird.

8 - Profound Philosophical Statements: He has made countless, oddly profound, philosophical observations even as a 3-4 year old. He can also come up with very odd descriptions of certain things or concepts, while using language beyond his years. He is very smart. I think he is brilliant, and I am not saying this because he is my kid. We once tested him when he was very young because he showed symptoms of speech issues, but when he went through several various tests, he was off the charts higher than the average kid in terms of intelligence.

9 - Depression: He has stated that he wishes that he was dead or that he did not exist. My wife and I are disturbed by such statements and we are not sure how to appropriately go forward here.

10 - Loving: He is the most loving of my 3 kids and is exceptional with animals. We jokingly call him the "dog whisperer".

Anyway, there's more but I just can't think of more at the moment. Please treat this post with the utmost seriousness. My wife is very close to embracing my son's constant daily demand to homeschool him. I am not convinced that this would be the best route in the long term. There will come a day that my son will have to deal with life, on his own. Please help!

It definitely sounds like your son could benefit from assessment. It could be AS. It could be social anxiety or ADHD, or any combination thereof.

My sons both have many similar sensitivities and anxieties. They were both dxed with AS, GAD and ADHD when they were 8. Since receiving the diagnoses we have been able to make great strides in helping them to be more calm and functional. We needed to know what exactly we were dealing with and then to make changes in our expectations, teaching methods and environment, and the assessment and dx helped with this.

As far as homeshooling, my husband and I revisit the question of whether or not it would be best every year. There is no clear answer for us. We tried public school again this year, and so far, knock on wood, with all the accommodations available to kids on the autistic spectrum finally at their disposal, we are having our best start to a school year ever! Possibly once your son has been assessed, there will be more resources and understanding for him, and his school life will also improve.

Best of luck with your son.

O dear, that post is going to take a long time to respond to...

While I get started on that, you may want to take some time and browse other posts on the parent's forum. You may find other parents asking similar questions, and the advice provided there may be useful to you.

In many ways he sounds like my son who was diagnosed with Asperger's earlier this year aged 7. I'd recommend that you have your son assessed and meantime contact the school with your concerns and arrange to meet with his teachers to discuss what changes can be made to help him achieve his undoubted potential.

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Kids feel most free to be themselves at home, so it is no surprise that you see things outsiders don't. But, obviously, keeping it all in takes its toll, and the public outbursts may be worse than others because of that. It can be the funniest things that help kids keep themselves under control. For my son, its things like pacing and fingering pretty much everything around him. He just finished pulling on a tape measure about 50 times, really annoying, but for some reason he needed to do it. The more you let go on these annoying behaviors, the more he can control himself for when it counts.

What you can do at home, while looking for and waiting for professional evaluation, is to find and mitigate the triggers, the sensory stress factors. Usually the straw that breaks the camel's back is only the last in a series; think about everything that led up to that point. Look at the patterns. Then mitigate. If he can't stand noise and the intensity in a movie theatre, don't take him anymore (does he WANT to go? My son does NOT).

If he is AS, realize that being outside in the world is stressful and confusing for him and, thus, exhausting. That would make his fuse a lot shorter when he gets home. Imagine going to work and confronting, every single day, the worst client imaginable. How would you act when you got home after that? Of course, hitting is never acceptable, but that gets hard to remember when you moved into full overload. So, the key becomes, prevent that full overload.

There may be more than one thing going on, but you can't really be sure until you've restructured his world to be free of sensory stress issues. Don't worry about the lack of interest in friends; he only needs friends if HE wants friends (and he may, or he may find other kids completely uninteresting, but you'll have to sort that out with him). Handwriting problems can be a common co-morbid (my son's is so bad that he now types everything), as can depression (I am lucky in that my son does not have that). Current depression could be due to frustration at an uncomprehending world, or it could be internal. You won't know until you've unraveled more pieces.

As for interest in reading ... its actually pretty common at his age to not want to read. Most likely the problem is that his reading fluency hasn't yet caught up to his reading interest level. In other words, he can't read the sorts of books that interest him at a speed fast enough to enjoy them. Once he gets over the hurdle, you may see it change. For both my kids, that happened between 3rd and 4th grades, over the summer.

Hi there black36, and welcome to WP. You and your family will survive, and with time and patience you can will have your own version of normal Your son sounds very similar to mine (14 yr old, 8th grade), who also started to really struggle in the 3rd grade....that's just about when I woke up and entered the AS world. The following suggestions come from the school of hard knocks, which for whatever reason has been the only way my thick skull seems to learn anything.

As far as school: 1) have your son evaluated by a trusted pediatrician knowledgable in autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) as soon as possible, and get him a diagnosis...it doesn't have to be the correct diagnosis. This is the most direct path toward getting your son additional services through the school district. 2) Start asking questions of the school about their ability to support kids with ASDs...for example, how many teachers have been trained in ASDs? When was the most recent training? Is there a school social worker and has (s)he been trained in ASDs? etc. 3) With the answers to 1 and 2 becoming clear, push for getting an Individual Educational Plan (IEP) in place for you son as soon as possible, this is THE most important tool with which you can get extra support for you son in school. 4) If you are uncomfortable with your pediatrician's assessment, get a second opinion, or even a third. 5) You might conclude that your school does not have the resources to support your son, in that case start looking around at other schools.

As far as peace in your home: 1) Establish rules for the home in very clear and certain terms that your son can understand, regarding things like manners, bedtime, etc. Start slowly, and build from there. My son is very literal, and doesn't pick up easily on sarcasm, inuendo, etc. and so we have to communicate serious topics on very literal terms (by the way, he is learning the art of social nuances, but it has taken time). Perhaps have your son write the rules down and hang them on his wall. Let him be part of this process, and let him make up many of the rules with your coaching/guidance. 2) Establish a system of rewards and negative consequences to reinforce good behavior, and again make sure to let your son be part of the process and think up rewards and punishments (limiting video game time has been very effective as a negative consequence in our home). The purpose for this approach is to teach the child that there are consequence for every decision they make, and so you must spend time with your son explaining all of this. Using rewards and consequences will not be effective without understanding...the child must understand why you are using consequences and this only comes with patience and communication. 3) Once the rules are established, be consistent with the rewards and punishments but also be willing to be flexible...if something isn't working, change it but also discuss the reasons for the change with your child. He must be part of the process and understand it. 4) Have a family meeting one evening a week, where the topic is "How to Make the Home a Happier Place." Stick to this topic, and give everyone in the family 5 minutes to talk without ANY interuptions about this topic (this is critical, no interuprtions)...this will allow everyone an equal chance to blow off steam and will also lead to peace and harmony over the long run. If you do this and are consistent with it, in time your family will begin to solve problems as a unit, including your son, and everyone will buy into making the home a happier place. You might also be surprised what you learn from your neurotypical children during these meetings 5) Finally, be patient, be gentle, and try to get to know your son as a person, rather than as a child.

When I reflect back on the last 10 years, it seems like my son has taught me more about how to be his parent than I have taught him how to be a son.

These are some of the things that have worked for me. Best of luck, and please check back in from time to time and let us know how things are going.

Welcome to WP!

Hey Black 36,

What are you doing with my son? LOL My son is now 11 but at age 8 this was him almost exactly. He was Dxed at 3 with mild mixed category ADHD. I have pumped so much work and money into working on his health and all the issues you have described. He was doing extremely well so we decided to have another child. Once my oldest hit around 6, I have no idea why but absolutely everythig went backwards. It was then that I was sure there was a bit more to him than mild ADHD. He was certainly a challenge to deal with and I had a younger child to deal with as well.His father who also has a DX of ADHD and Anxiety and my son's friction drove me to want to take my youngest son and run. I am truely the fiercest and ballsy mother you will ever meet. I NEVER back down to a challenge so this was not something that came easy. It was like having 3 kids with 2 of them escapees from a reform school (I kid you not)One was as bad as the other and the worse the behaviour got in my son the worse his fathers response to it was. I made my husband go on anti anxiety medication (I had had my run with ADHD meds and I was not doing that to my child again) So it was either my husband went on meds or he was gone. Believe me I really get what you are going through. It sends shivers up my spine recalling how bloody awful that time was.

I read up on ASD and was certain both my son and husband had it, but left off getting a DX because it was my opinion at that time that DX's and lables don't do anything for your child, except for handicapping them further. I was already working on neuro developmental models of therapy, so nothing would change in that respect. The speech therapist he was seeing at the time sort of talked me into saying that he would at least get some help in school then. So I had my son DXed. It came back he had severe Aspergers. The report the Consultant Psychiatrist gave him would have devistated the staunchest of parents. He basically said take him home and love him thats all you can do because he will achieve absolutely nothing in life. He prescribed some very heavy duty drugs, but I was having none of that. I was ready for the DX but I was not ready for the prognosis he gave my son. I was used to dealing with DRs and therapists so soon got over it and began in earnest pumping the work and money into him again.

I won't go on any further if you are interested you can PM me. Enough to say my son is a very different kettle of fish these days. He astounds me all the time how different he is to back then so please don't dispair.


Cheers

It sounds like you should get him in and tested as soon as possible. You mentioned that the aggressive/violent behavior didn't seem to fit, but in my experience it fits with AS pretty darn well. We went through half a dozen preschools due to my daughter's aggressive behavior...the worst case was when she got frustrated during the day, pushed a child down and kicked him in the face repeatedly, breaking his nose. The aggression was amplified by the fact that when it was over, she felt no remorse...she could not understand why hitting someone was a bad thing to do because it helped her feel better. If you think about it from the perspective of the child with AS, the aggression makes sense. For my daughter, every loud noise, bright light, oddly textured food or clothing item, hurts her. If I turn on the vacuum cleaner, I need to warn her to play outside because if she's inside she will curl up in a ball, cover her ears, and cower in a corner crying. Now imagine having your senses under assault, and put yourself in an elementary school classroom. You're experiencing anywhere from mild discomfort to acute pain all day long. Add to that, that you have no idea how to relate to other people (my daughter reports to me every day what the "humans at school" do as if she is conducting some sort of field study on a very odd species of animal) and so you are subjected to meanness and teasing by your classmates all day. Then when you have a mild breakdown, the teachers and administrators treat it as a behavior problem in the absence of a diagnosis, and so everything is now out of control and the only thing you know is that it must be because you're "bad". Top it all off with a disability that makes you so that you cannot understand that anyone outside of your body has feelings or perspectives that are different from your own. When I put myself in my child's shoes, I have to admit I'd probably hit people too!

The good news is, we haven't had any hitting in over a year...and I attribute this directly to our understanding of her issues and a very concentrated effort to remove the sensory stresses both at home and at school, and our efforts to lessen transitions or unexpected events during the day. We are still learning more, and as we take one thing off the table it seems we find out that there is more under the surface..but each time we add a coping tool there seems to be an improvement, and she is now doing better than she ever has.

The key is to get the diagnosis because the school really can't do anything until your child is shown to qualify for services. We have chosen to keep her in the public school because from my perspective, she will need to learn how to deal with these things in order to be a successful adult that can keep a job. But she is getting a lot of help. To give you an idea of what can happen after you have an IEP:
-She has access to the special needs resource room for overwhelming situations (like school assemblies) and for 15 minutes in the morning and afternoon to get a break
-The school has her in social skills training 3 times a week: twice a week with other ASD kids, one time a week with a small group of children from her class
-Occupational therapy for sensory integration therapy, and fine motor skills training (handwriting, letter and number reversals, etc)
-Speech therapy for social communication...they work on word choices because she uses some very odd/idiosyncratic speech that other children see as weird, and on proper expressions and understanding non verbal communication
In addition, she has several accomodations to help her:
-She is allowed to have a weighted lap pad in class to help her sit still.
-She has a chewy necklace that helps her "stim" in a less obvious/more sanitary way than chewing her hair and skin
-She has a stress ball available to squeeze when she feels uncomfortable
-Earplugs in her backpack for classes like music where the noise is too loud.
-Daily schedule taped to her desk, and picture instructions and advance warning for things like fire and earthquake drills.
-She has the go ahead if it becomes necessary to have an "office" set up in the classroom (a desk seperated from the class with 3 walls) so that if she is getting overwhelmed she can tell the teacher she needs to work on her assignments in her office.
-Since it takes her so long to eat, she rarely finishes more than one item from her lunch box. She is allowed a 5 minute break in the mid afternoon to eat a nutrition bar if she seems to be getting irritable.

All of this makes school a much less frightening and overwhelming place for her. Then at home, we have her afternoon schedule taped to her bedroom door (and we do the same exact thing every day!), we keep noise and bright lights to a minimum, and we have very established rules as well as consistently applied rewards and punishments.

It takes some time and effort to get all of this in place, but it is well worth it...our lives have gone from constant chaos, worry and stress, to a home life where we not only don't have to be stressed all the time, but we are spending so much less time on the bad stuff that we are able to really get to know my daughter for the first time...the person underneath all of the dysfunctional reactions, and we're finding out that she also has incredible gifts that were hidden beneath all the acting out and that she's really a very fun little person to hang out with:)

On a side note...saywhatyamean....I feel your pain there. I have an ADHD husband too (and an ADHD self but I had a lot of treatment as a child while he was undiagnosed until adulthood so I cope better:P). I have gotten to the point on weekends where everyone wakes up and I feed my child and my husband in seperate rooms and have them take their meds, and they aren't allowed to have contact with each other until 30 minutes has passed. Putting the two of them in contact with each other before that is a guaranteed bad start to the day!

OK well, I have been meaning to write a response to this, so here it goes.

To start with. In order to answer your main question 'Does my 8 year old have AS?' I think the best response is yes, but the label probably doesnt mean as much as you would think.

Terms like Asperger syndrome do not accurately describe anybody. I can assure you that I myself am weird, at least weird enough that I do not fit into typical society the way most people do. But yet trying to describe me with labels would be an exercise in futility. I can not be accurately described as having autism, or having AS, or being normal, or anything like that because I am simply too complicated to be stuffed into a yes or no check box.

Likewise, everybody else in the world (including your son) can not be accurately described with just one label. Trying to determine whether or not your son has asperger's syndrome is like trying to draw a line where the ocean ends and the beach starts. The ocean edge is constantly changing due to waves, tides, erosion, etc. Likewise trying to pin down something as complex as a human's personality with discreet little terms wont work. The diagnostic criteria is incredibly vague and open to interpretation by the diagnosing doctor. Some people might say yes, others might say no, it really depends on what the diagnosing doctor's criteria is, and how he perceives your son.

In your son's case, I would say that he certainly sounds like other people who have AS, and getting a label of AS would probably help because you could get him an IEP and maybe fix some problems at school. But keep in mind that every person with AS is different. Your son is a unique and individual creation, unlike anybody else in this world. Having him labeled with AS may be useful for getting paperwork filled out, and getting him an IEP, but it doesnt define who he is as a human being, nor does it place limits on him. If you spend time reading the posts here you will find that many different personalities are represented. Some people like myself prefer solitude and arent very interested in socializing. Others here may wish to socialize more, but have difficulty doing so. Some people started speaking early, other people like myself started speaking late. Personality varies from person to person, and as such the label of Asperger's Syndrome really doesnt mean that your son will always act or behave a certain way.

What is important here is not what label your son receives, but what you do with this information. If you read about asperger's syndrome, and it helps you to be a better parent, and helps both you and your son to have a more enjoyable and productive life, then who cares what he is labeled with. Labels are just tools, and nothing more. Treat your son based on the individual that he is, in a way that works for both you and him. Having a label may give you a good idea where to start, and also provide you with a lot of information, but it doesn't define who your son is.


As for your second question, 'What's next?' That is a little bit more complicated to answer.

I think at this point there are some things you should know.

Having AS (which your son seems to qualify for) creates a lot of stress. It is somewhat hard to explain properly, but allow me to assure you that there are problems associated with the condition that lead to being stressed out often. Sounds are too loud, lights are too bright, information overload is a constant problem, your often picked on at school, people treat you poorly because you are different. You have difficulty dealing with large groups of people, you get overwhelmed easily, etc. I am not trying to sound like an attention seeker, but you should understand that your son probably is dealing with a lot more stress then you had to deal with as a child. This of course is made worse due to the way an autistic brain is wired. It is too long to get into on this post, but the short story is that the part of the brain which handles anxiety and stress is overdeveloped in an autistic brain. If you wish to better understand the underlying neurology of the condition which is leading to these problems, you may wish to view this article:

http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/pap ... 2007/html/

It is fairly technical in nature, and may not be easily understood if you dont have a good understanding of neurochemistry, neurology, and scientific procedure. If you want to, you can just skip past all the science, and get to the useful information here:

http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/pap ... 7/html/#h9

What I am trying to say is that you shouldn't underestimate the amount of stress that your child is under. Simply being in a room with a few dozen other people can be very stressful, which of course then leads to difficulty remaining calm. Its basic human nature that when you are stressed out you have a shorter fuse and can get angry/act out more easily. Many parents assume the problem is caused by willful bad behavior without realizing the stress that the child is under. If a normal child was under the same deal of stress they would probably have the same behavioral problems as autistic children.

As a mother here has said, When a problem occurs with your child (as in they are acting up) the default assumption should be that they are overwhelmed, not that they are intentionally causing problems. Now I am not saying your son is a perfect angel who never does anything wrong. But the majority of problems with your son are likely due for the most part with being stressed out. Try working on reducing the stress, and you will find that the majority of problems will go away, or diminish greatly.

For example, lets look at your post:

I will say he has something, whether it be NLD, AS, ADHD is up in the air. I will say, he reminds me of how I was when I was young, which to me screams that he needs some help. I say this because some issues you mentioned here such as the fine motor problems can be helped with occupational therapy.

I don't have answers beyond that. I say getting an evaluation and diagnosis is your first step, and take it from there. Some of what you posted doesn't sound exactly like AS, rather it is one possibility of a few. But he does need some help. By the way...awesome post tracker and dead on, you need to take what your son says seriously.

Update:

We have an appointment to see a family doctor for a consultation visit a week from Monday. The doctor we are seeing is a parent of a child with autism.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond to me.

I am the Grandmother of Black 36's child. I babysat my Grandson from the time he was a couple of month's old (approximately once or twice a week) until he went to all-day kindergarten . He was, for me, an easy child. He never "acted out." He watched TV, played on the PC and always behaved. I was always able to clean the house, do the laundry, etc. while my Grandson amused himself. He is an extremely affectionate child and always ready for a hug. He would often express amazing thoughts, for example:

He told me that he wanted to be a doctor some day so that he could take care of me when I am old and my bones all were broken. He often visited his Great Grandmother in a Nursing Home where, I believe, he learned about aging.

Last summer I took him and his brother and sister to the movies. We saw a 3-D movie (I forgot the name) that was loud and full of graphics. NO PROBLEM. My Grandson did not compain about the noise. He just sat, watched the movie and ate popcorn. After the movie we went to Friendly's ice cream parlor. Again, no problem.

Also last summer I took my Grandkids to SplishSplash. My Grandson, at the end of the day, wanted to go on a ride with the older boys. He did "panic" when he wound up on the ride and accidentally got separated from the older boys. He had the good sense to go to the life guard and explain he was lost.

I did have one instance on a shopping spree about two years ago. We went to Macy's and he wanted a shirt that did come in his size. He went "nuts" when I told him that he could not have the shirt because it was too small. Please understand, that the shopping spree was his birthday present, and he was under the impression that he could pick what he wanted. Anyway, I handled the situation, as I would have handled Black 36 (my son). I simply picked up my screaming Grandson, got on the escalator, and left Macy's. My Grandson calmed down as soon as we left Macy's, and we went on our merry way. We then went to the Food Court to have dinner and my Grandson saw a hat (horrible hat, expesive hat) in Lids. I told him NO. It was a waste of money and that I had a list of items he needed that his mother had given me. He went "nuts." Again, I picked him up while he was screaming and left Lids. After leaving Lids, he calmed down and we went for ice cream. We then went home. I no longer take him shopping--not a good idea.

At the end of the school year last June I was fortunate enough to go to a school picnic with my Grandson. Both my son and daughter-in-law were working. I was able to observe that my Grandson's handwriting was the worst in his class. Also, last January, my Grandson injured his spleen in a sleigh riding accident. I watched him for a couple of days while he was recovering--my son and daughter-in-law had to work. I learned he loved to do arithmetic and was excellent at it. In fact, he would do the problems in his head, laugh write the answers and then write out the methodology. However, word problems frustered him and reading is not his favorite thing.

If my Grandson needs help, my son and daughter-in-law will be on top of it.