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How do I explain this to my son? (Help! Profanity)
28 Feb 2012, 1:33 pm
It is also important to make sure he understands, he's not always the one that's 'wrong.' I mean yes he does need to understand other people have their own intrests and stuff and he has to be open to that in interacting with them. But also there are bullies and they have no right to harrass him.
I guess my main concern is I would hate him to learn its ok for other people to be mean to him...I guess I just had a lot of experience of taking things literally. Like one time my mom was trying to explain that sometimes the way I interact is off putting so thats sometimes why people didn't particularly like me.......I mean she was basically just trying to help. But I took it as her saying 'it's your fault people pick on you.' So I just think it is important to empathazise learing about how to better express himself and interact, but also that if someone is picking on him or making fun of him they are in the wrong....not that it's his fault as that can indicate he more or less deserves it.
_________________
Winter is coming.
28 Feb 2012, 3:18 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
It is also important to make sure he understands, he's not always the one that's 'wrong.' I mean yes he does need to understand other people have their own intrests and stuff and he has to be open to that in interacting with them. But also there are bullies and they have no right to harrass him.
I agree with this up to a point - but, not in this case. Bullying isn't just "being mean." It implies an imbalance of power towards the bully. In all the interactions I've observed, I have yet to see a situation where a kindergartener has any real power, either social or physical, over my 11-year-old.
DS needs to learn that all "being mean" isn't necessarily bullying - in order for something to be bullying, there needs to be intent on the other person's part, and also there needs to be an imbalance of power (the bully in some way is able to get away with it unless someone intervenes on behalf of the victim.) Otherwise, you run the risk of becoming the bully yourself, by responding inappropriately.
We've made great strides this year helping him to understand that he needs support to figure out intent, and he needs help thinking flexibly to prevent power imbalances (when bullying was an issue, the bullies used his slightly slower social processing against him.)
28 Feb 2012, 4:29 pm
momsparky wrote:
So, for background, one of my son's specific pragmatic speech deficits is not knowing his audience. He's gotten pretty good at 11-year-old boy speak, but he doesn't change it for anyone, so you pretty much get talked to like you are an 11 year old boy whether you are one, or whether you're the President of the United States.This has several extremely difficult and complex implications, the most problematic of which is profane language and gestures. 11 year old boys love to swear, but most of them know you can't swear at people without expecting a reaction, and you certainly can't swear in front of your parents, or the principal, or your teacher, etc. DS can either swear all the time or not at all - so, obviously, we have opted to teach him not to swear at all. We have explained that the other kids who swear are able to "turn it off" when it's not appropriate, and so the rule is there until he can keep his language appropriate to the situation.
I have also made a point to explain all the various profane words and gestures, and why people consider them hurtful. DS understands that.
So, today, our dog got loose, we were all very upset, DS apparently yelled at a neighbor's kindergartner - a child who is largely raising himself from what I can see. Said kindergartner swore at DS and gave him the finger. DS melted down.
Specifically, I need to explain why he needs to ignore swearing from little kids when it is directed at him (this is neither the first or the last time this has happened, our neighborhood has many kids who are a bit rough around the edges.) I also need to explain other situations when swearing should be ignored and when it's serious and should be brought to the attention of an adult. DS has a history of fighting over swear words, and doesn't understand the developmental gap between himself and a little kid.
DS is struggling with the idea that this child, half his age, was using language intended to be hurtful purposefully to hurt him. He does not understand why this rule is different for smaller children. He does not understand how other kids can use this language when it's not language that is OK for him to use, and he does not understand that there are situations where it isn't worth engaging.
I can't figure out how to articulate this complicated mess of rules. Help!
I have also made a point to explain all the various profane words and gestures, and why people consider them hurtful. DS understands that.
So, today, our dog got loose, we were all very upset, DS apparently yelled at a neighbor's kindergartner - a child who is largely raising himself from what I can see. Said kindergartner swore at DS and gave him the finger. DS melted down.
Specifically, I need to explain why he needs to ignore swearing from little kids when it is directed at him (this is neither the first or the last time this has happened, our neighborhood has many kids who are a bit rough around the edges.) I also need to explain other situations when swearing should be ignored and when it's serious and should be brought to the attention of an adult. DS has a history of fighting over swear words, and doesn't understand the developmental gap between himself and a little kid.
DS is struggling with the idea that this child, half his age, was using language intended to be hurtful purposefully to hurt him. He does not understand why this rule is different for smaller children. He does not understand how other kids can use this language when it's not language that is OK for him to use, and he does not understand that there are situations where it isn't worth engaging.
I can't figure out how to articulate this complicated mess of rules. Help!
That sounds like something I had problems with as a kid minus the swearing. Mom had forbidden it totally and told me other kids did it because their parents allowed them and they were not good parents. But I was able to understand seven year old behavior or three year old behavior and so on when mom would spell them out to me. It seems like you son will not accept that rule while I accepted it after I get told it's okay for someone to do that because they are five years old and I am ten so I know better and they don't. Just sounds like your son won't accept that while I did. He probably thinks it's unfair that kids have to have different rules based on age and thinks it should be the same for everyone. Well babies wear diapers, does that mean older kids should wear them too and wet and mess themselves because it's okay for babies to do it? Babies make messes when they eat and eat sloppy and it's okay for them to do that, does that mean everyone else should eat that way too just because babies are allowed to eat that way? When people get old, they no longer have to work and they end up being cared for by others or living in a home for elederlies, just because that is okay for them, does that mean all of us younger folks should quit our jobs and sit at home and not work and get money from social security or from the retirement and live in homes and be cared for by others? Would using this logic help your son accept the different rules for each age group?
But I was confused also, why is it okay for a small child to use language to hurt someone but it's not okay for a 11 year old to use language to hurt someone? Mom would not have allowed me to talk that way to anyone at five years old, she would have slapped my mouth for saying a bad word and make me apologize to that person. You should have told him that boy used that language because he is not supervised so he uses those words because his parents don't supervise him to not say those words. He shouldn't be using them either but because he isn't supervised, he uses them.
28 Feb 2012, 5:50 pm
League_Girl wrote:
Well babies wear diapers, does that mean older kids should wear them too and wet and mess themselves because it's okay for babies to do it? Babies make messes when they eat and eat sloppy and it's okay for them to do that, does that mean everyone else should eat that way too just because babies are allowed to eat that way?
LOL, my son would answer this logic with "well, they're stupid." He doesn't get development at all.
I did try explaining all this stuff to him, but none of it made any sense to him: he knows I call police when older kids break the law, so he thinks I should parent this stranger's kid for breaking minor rules, too. I'm glad I finally found a way to get through to him.
28 Feb 2012, 5:52 pm
momsparky wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
It is also important to make sure he understands, he's not always the one that's 'wrong.' I mean yes he does need to understand other people have their own intrests and stuff and he has to be open to that in interacting with them. But also there are bullies and they have no right to harrass him.
I agree with this up to a point - but, not in this case. Bullying isn't just "being mean." It implies an imbalance of power towards the bully. In all the interactions I've observed, I have yet to see a situation where a kindergartener has any real power, either social or physical, over my 11-year-old.
DS needs to learn that all "being mean" isn't necessarily bullying - in order for something to be bullying, there needs to be intent on the other person's part, and also there needs to be an imbalance of power (the bully in some way is able to get away with it unless someone intervenes on behalf of the victim.) Otherwise, you run the risk of becoming the bully yourself, by responding inappropriately.
We've made great strides this year helping him to understand that he needs support to figure out intent, and he needs help thinking flexibly to prevent power imbalances (when bullying was an issue, the bullies used his slightly slower social processing against him.)
I can understand that, I was just kind of simplifying....That is certainly all true. I am just trying to stress he needs to understand he is a valuble person to so his feelings are as valid as everyone elses, but that he should try to be aware of how he reacts to things as sometimes his behavior can hurt other peoples feelings to. So yeah you are right about that.
_________________
Winter is coming.
28 Feb 2012, 6:54 pm
momsparky wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Well babies wear diapers, does that mean older kids should wear them too and wet and mess themselves because it's okay for babies to do it? Babies make messes when they eat and eat sloppy and it's okay for them to do that, does that mean everyone else should eat that way too just because babies are allowed to eat that way?
LOL, my son would answer this logic with "well, they're stupid." He doesn't get development at all.
I did try explaining all this stuff to him, but none of it made any sense to him: he knows I call police when older kids break the law, so he thinks I should parent this stranger's kid for breaking minor rules, too. I'm glad I finally found a way to get through to him.
I wonder how much of his thinking actually has to do with AS because I have lurked in the childfree forums and it's very common in lot of them to think kids are stupid and babies too and toddlers. They don't care about development. But does that mean they don't understand development?
There are even people out there who are not even on the spectrum and also think small kids should be charged with a crime when they do one. They think the rules should be the same for them too as adults.
I wonder if he thinks the elederly are stupid because their brains stop working right? How about telling him the five year old is stupid so that;s why he can use such language? Sometimes you have to use peoples logic to get though to them. Talking to them in their language to make a point. Since he thinks babies are stupid, you can tell that five year old is stupid.
I have been thinking that parents and people will often use peoples autism and their kids autism as a scapegoat for their thinking and point of views ignoring the fact there are non spectrum people out there who also have those same sort of views. It also may be it's not that they don't get it, they just don't agree and they have their own opinions about it. People also assume someone doesn't get it when they don't agree with them or with their views. It took me until my twenties to figure this out. You son may get it but he does not agree with the rules and how things are. This is something everyone should remember and consider.
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