Asperger traits and behavioural issues in a 4yo

Post Reply New Topic

I apologise in advance if I make no sense at all. I'm still trying to get my head around this!

I have a 4yo son who is academically very intelligent (a few professionals have said he is certainly gifted but we haven't had a formal IQ assessment). His father is highly gifted and 'quirky' and definitely has some AS traits.

My little boy attends a preschool. He is often aggressive towards the other children with no reason whatsoever. He will hit, scratch, pinch, push and think it funny. A He seems to show no remorse or consideration but he is able to tell you "hitting is wrong, it hurts people". His teachers say he usually always only gets out of control when it is time for the children to sit in a circle. At other times, such as when he is working on his own, he is fine. But if he is walking around not doing anything he will be 'naughty' such as hit a child as he walks past them or overturn their work.

Outside of preschool, there are no problems whatsoever with our neighbours' children or children of our friends. He interacts with them and will ask them to play with him. Our friends are shocked when we tell them about our son's behaviour at preschool and say they can't believe it.

Yesterday we went to a child psychologist who spoke with us and our son. We gave her this information, using examples, and she said she believes he has Asperger traits and that most people have at least one trait. She said "saying someone has Aspergers and saying someone has Asperger traits are two very different things". She is a specialist in the area of gifted children with Aspergers and says the behavioural problems at preschool are a definite trait.

But my husband and I aren't sure if our son really does have a social problem where his peers are concerned because as I said, he has no problems with children outside preschool. We also suspect that being around a lot of children who are in some way interacting with him or getting in his personal space is a trigger for his 'bad' behaviour. At a birthday party last week he was outdoors with 10 other children he didn't know and wasn't approaching any of them apart from trying to take their toys away a few times. But later he was in a smaller room with only two children and he was asking if they wanted to help him build a train track.

My son can get very fixated on topics, for eg he loves electricity and we have a whole room full of pictures of power sockets, batteries, generators etc. It's all he wanted to draw. When he upsets people he shows no compassion, almost the opposite and laughs. I don't know if this is "something to do with Aspergers" (the psych thinks so) or just 'bratty behaviour'. I know most 4 year olds go through this, but it seems much more than that. His father definitely has Aspergers traits. I am also aware that many gifted children display autistic traits but are not considered autistic.

We are now waiting to see another psychologist for an official diagnosis or whatever you call it, or maybe to see 'how many traits' my son has. But we're just at a loss to understand why he has the 'typical' social interaction problems associated with Aspergers in the one kind of environment (ie the psychologist says his behaviour there is definitely an Asperger trait) but not in others. For eg, if we have to send him to Asperger-specific counselling (which has been suggested) for learning how to 'play nice' and make friends due to his preschool behaviour, it would seem very strange because he can play nice and make friends without a problem when he's around a smaller number of children.

He is not a spoilt brat and is never allowed to get away with poor behaviour at home. But there's definitely something going on at school because that's where he seems to exhibit the traits.

Hope this makes sense to someone! Has anybody been in a similar situation?

Sounds just like my 8 yr old AS son. He usually only exhibits some quirky behaviour outside school, and lacks a few social skills. At school he seems so much more autistic. I think it is partly dealing with the social aspects of 30 other children in a class, and also having to sit and do work for long periods of time (when it doesn't always interest him).

When you talk about "Asperger/autistic" traits being different to having Aspergers/autism, I don't really know if this is true. You only identify "Asperger traits" if you suspect Aspergers. The whole Asperger/autistic thing is part of a spectrum, where different individuals are on different places on the spectrum. Some people think you have to fit ALL the categories for AS, but the AS kids I know tend to fit some/most of them . . . but can also be very different from each other in some respects.

thank you My understanding was that in order to be considered as having AS, one has to have a series of boxes checked. But if you only check some of those boxes, it's considered "AS traits" and therefore not AS. Or rather, having AS traits but not having 'full' AS if that makes sense. The psychologist made this distinction for us.

I'm having a hard time deciding whether my son's misbehaviour at home (such as hitting us when he isn't getting his own way) is just 'naughty' behaviour with a resulting consequence, or something AS-related. As such, it's hard trying to work out the consequences for him when he shows this behaviour. I feel horrible that we have sent him off to his room for bad behaviour, when there's the possibility he didn't fully understand/realise what he was doing.

Sounds like your son just needs to hit the wrong kid and catch a mini beating. My son got in a scuffle at preschool and some other kid clawed his face.....haven't had an issue since.

I could have written this post myself 20 years ago when my son was in preschool. over the years I discovered that it was caused by him being overstimulated or bored or frustrated without any way to express it. If he is not this way all of the time then I think that you should consider that there is something causing it (even if it doesn't seem to make sense) instead of him just being difficult, I think we do a lot of damage to our children when we don't consider that they are troubled by something, in my experience kids want to be good, they want to fit in, they want to please you and if they are acting up there is a reason.

In retrospect I can tell you through trial and tribulation what ultimately worked for my son, but it won't be easy.

Smaller more personalized preschool
Private (lutheran) elementary school
Homeschooled Oak meadows curriculum after 8th grade
Started college at age 15
and now works for a University doing research

also discovered that my son was kinetic learner with a very high IQ so whenever we tried to put him into a typical classroom environment he was not only bored but had a hard time sitting still.

You might also try a waldorf type school, anything were children are not expected to conform to a rigid environment is my suggestion..

Also discovered over the years that my son had food allergies, chemical sensitivities and hypoglycemia

Another thing that worked for my kids with respect to behavioral problems was to explain the natural consequence to things rather than get into the 'right and wrong' of something, if he is logical use that to your advantage, tell him why he shouldn't do something rather than just that it is not acceptable to do, it is also helpful to give him an alternative to the behavior to get what he needs. If he is sensitive to things in his environment and becomes overstimulated it is not by his choice he can't help it, help him to discover what those sensitivities are and give him the space to be comfortable and he will achieve great things and most of all be happy doing it.

Good luck

this could have been writen about my AS son as well. go for the evaluation.

Re the AS traits vs full AS . . . I guess that people like psychologists need to stick to very definite "boxes" to diagnose. There are definite criteria, but my concern is that often people read the stuff and say, "Oh, well, he/she only fits 70-80% of the criteria, therefore they are NT and not AS." A friend of mine borrowed a book I had on AS (called "Asperger's Syndrome: A guide for parents and professionals" by Tony Attwood - in case you're interested), but concluded that her son didn't fit all the categories so didn't have AS, when, from what I can see, he clearly is different - monotone voice, gifted intelligence, over-stimulated socially, noise sensitivity, doesn't handle changes in routine. My AS son fits a lot of the criteria but is actually the opposite on some of it eg. motor clumsiness is a trait, but he was better than most kids at colouring-in at an early age, and can draw really intricate diagrams.

In my opinion, the main thing about a diagnosis is that it explains behaviour and gives you a basis to begin dealing with it. The label is useless in itself. So whether it is Aspergers or Autism Spectrum issues, it is about identifying the issues in your child that are "different", and then accepting them and helping work on them.

I think you're doing the right thing in sending him to his room for hitting you, regardless of whether it is autistically related. He needs to learn that that is inappropriate. I don't view sending my AS son to his room so much as punishment - it's more excluding him from the situation because his behaviour is inappropriate, and allowing him some calm-down time and brain space to deal with it. I encourage him to do a jigsaw or read a book in his room to get his brain re-aligned. I used to get really frustrated with my son's behaviour at times, but now I have developed the attitude that a lot of the time his behaviour is reactionary and without intent, and that I need to turn it into a teaching lesson rather than a punishment session. It doesn't change the fact that he gets disciplined for bad behaviour, but I do tend to coach him through it more, and it takes the emotion out of it for me. I will often direct him too about what he needs to say to remedy the situation (usually "Sorry") as he doesn't seem to come up with it on his own.

Thanks everyone. To address some of your comments:

In my more frustrated moments I thought this would be a good idea but it doesn't work. My son has been hit by some of the older boys but most likely in retaliation. His take on it is "if they hit me then I will hit them harder". The only place he has ever seen pushing, hitting etc is at preschool, so 'normal' behaviour among 3-6 year olds. But his is more the lack of empathy and compassion, all the other children get the message and interact well.



Yes, that's what we do. No smacking/yelling, just remove him from the situation depending on what he has done (for eg gets taken to his room when he hits us). We have always followed the natural consequences approach.




We send him to an authentic Montessori preschool and it is a truly wonderful place with caring staff trying to do the right thing by him. I couldn't ask for more, they know he is bright and give him individual activities. I have raised the issue that he is bored, but the Montessori environment is so rich that it doesn't typically invite boredom. The teachers are therefore trying to give him tasks they think he will enjoy. My son is due to finish Montessori preschool in 2010 after which we will homeschool him. However if he still has the behaviour problems, assuming we get some kind of counselling on the school end year holidays (in Australia the children start the next year of schooling in late January), we will homeschool him next year. Our psychologist has agreed that for now, homeschooling is the best option (we'd do it anyway regardless).

There are no food sensitivities or intolerances that we are aware of.

We have requested that the teachers not ask our son to sit with the class during group time (this is where he starts misbehaving). Instead they will give him the option to move outside or do something on his own. In the group time yesterday the children all played a car game and our son was fine (he loves traffic related stuff). He does often cooperate when there's a bribe.

Thanks again!

Sounds a lot like my 3 year old. A TSS in preschool has helped to curtail his behaviors. Most of his issues seem to be anxiety based. Even though he has excellent language, he doesn't always use it effectively. The setting in itself may be producing anxiety for him and just that is causing him to act out...it's very hard for our son in a social setting.

Wraparound services may help you develop a behavior plan for school. One thing that worked for our son is a visual schedule of the day. PECS. He likes to be in control and always know what's coming next...this has helped him immensely.