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Reodor_Felgen
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12 Oct 2008, 1:25 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:
I would think their biggest screw up would be not having enough exclusive games for their PS3. Many game companies including SquareEnix are amking their games mulit-platform.


There are a lot of good, exclusive games for the PS3 (eg. Drake's Fortune), just like there are a lot of good exclusive games on the Xbox 360. Square Enix never offers anything new, so I doubt that it will bother the PS3 loyalists if they release multi-platform games.


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Reodor_Felgen
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12 Oct 2008, 1:36 pm

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I've read surveys where the majority of respondants didn't really care if a movie had better quality than DVD. In fact, the HD-DVD backers are realizing this and building sets that "upscale" DVD to make the picture appear better. Sure it's not the same as Blu-ray, but it's going to keep the average consumer happy with regular DVD.


I didn't say that DVDs were outdated when used for movies, but that they were outdated when it came to storing games, as evidenced by the fact that many games won't fit on a DVD. Rockstar Games had to scrap many of their ideas to make GTA IV fit on a DVD, and it still pushes the compression quality to the limit.

Upscaling barely looks any better than regular resolution, as all it does is resize the picture and then blur it.

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If this is truely an issue, I think MS would release a non-blu-ray drive just to support the larger games. Hell, they could probably bundle an HD-DVD drive with one of the new larger/uncompressed games, call it something else, and pay little or nothing in royalties.


Most multi-platform games on the PS1 and N64 were identical--if you overlook til bilinear filtering on the N64. Still, games like Metal Gear Solid couldn't have been done on the N64 because of the limited space of the cartridges.


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jamesohgoodie
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12 Oct 2008, 3:19 pm

Reodor_Felgen wrote:
jamesohgoodie wrote:
Reodor_Felgen wrote:
jamesohgoodie wrote:
Who cares who defeated who? The point is introducing a new media format while DVD is still riding high is pointless for both sides! And DVD's can fit modern games just fine. Most 360 games are burned onto dual layer 7GB DVD discs and they handle the graphics and load times just fine. The only game that takes advantage of Blu-Ray's storage capacity is MGS4 and since half of it's content is cutscenes and not gameplay I don't count that.


Many developers have encountered problems because of the DVD's limited storage space. Allthough DVDs still work fine with movies, game size increases faster than compression quality. Microsoft are considering a Blu-ray drive for the Xbox 360 as we speak.

By the way, Resistance: Fall of Man takes 22 gigabytes. Heavenly Sword takes 30 gigabytes. This is of course without the dummy files. I just thought you'd like to know...

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Also, comparing the sales of the PSP to the sales of the Gamecube and XBox is totally unfair. One's a console, one's a handheld. They're totally different markets. Combined the PSP and the DS have sold 120 million units worldwide. Compare that to the Wii, the 360, and the PS3, which combined have sold 65 million units worldwide.


Stationary consoles will typicaly sell more than handhelds. Both the PSP and the DS have existed longer than all the current-gen stationary consoles.


To quote some more numbers...

NES: 60 million
SNES: 50 million
N64: 33 million
Gameboy: 70 million

Genesis: 30 million
Game Gear: 11 million

Gamecube: 20 million
Gameboy Advance: 70 million

Okay so Resistance and Heavenly Sword take advantage of the Blu-Ray. But to what end? Heavenly Sword in particular has something like 6 to 8 hours of gameplay and almost no replay value. Personally I question the point.


Just because Heavenly Sword offers little to no replay value, doesn't mean that other PS3 games does as well. I'd prefer a game which offers 20 hours or more with gameplay, variation, great story etc. (eg. Mafia) over a simple game with high replay value (eg. Tetris) any day.

PS2: 140 millions. The Gameboy generation lasted for ten years, and Nintendo had a monopoly on handhelds, which they never had on stationary consoles. The Gameboy Advanced have existed almost as long as the PS2, but isn't even close in sales numbers, despite Nintendo's monopoly.


Maybe Heavenly Sword and MGS4 are exceptions, but my point is why have this huge media format for gaming that you can store lots of data on if you're not going to use it to make a better primary game?

I'm well aware of the PS2 numbers and almost included them in previous post. As much as I hate to admit it, the Playstation 2 was a perfect storm of gaming. It seemed to be just right for the market at the time (even now to an extent). It was backwards compatible with the very successful PS1 so people who missed out on it could catch up, it could play DVD's which were a growing market, it had great hardware and it was easy to make games for. Perhaps that's what makes the PS3 so exasperating. They took everything that was great about it's predecessor and took it away, even turning some of the strengths into weaknesses!

I also didn't want to include those numbers because until the PSP Sony wasn't even considering the handheld market, so they put all their eggs into the console basket. The PSP could also be an early example of Sony making all their advantages into disadvantages. All the PSP had to do to be successful was port a few Playstation 1 games along with some new originals that took advantage of the graphics processing. But they had to push the goddamn UMD thing along with marketing a bunch of movies nobody would want to watch full-screen let alone on the tiny PSP screen.


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Reodor_Felgen
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13 Oct 2008, 9:06 am

jamesohgoodie wrote:
Maybe Heavenly Sword and MGS4 are exceptions, but my point is why have this huge media format for gaming that you can store lots of data on if you're not going to use it to make a better primary game?


No, they're not exceptions. A couple of the release games had poor compression quality, but most exclusive PS3 games today will exceed the limit of the DVD.

Gran Turismo 4 was only better than Gran Turismo 3 just because it had better graphics, better physics and much more cars and tracks. Gran Turismo 5 will be even better for the same reasons, and won't fit on a DVD because it will offer over 900 high-poly cars.

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I'm well aware of the PS2 numbers and almost included them in previous post. As much as I hate to admit it, the Playstation 2 was a perfect storm of gaming. It seemed to be just right for the market at the time (even now to an extent). It was backwards compatible with the very successful PS1 so people who missed out on it could catch up, it could play DVD's which were a growing market, it had great hardware and it was easy to make games for. Perhaps that's what makes the PS3 so exasperating. They took everything that was great about it's predecessor and took it away, even turning some of the strengths into weaknesses!


Actually, it was harder to make games for the PS2 than the Gamecube and Xbox, which is why it took a while before we saw it's potential. The only good thing they removed in the PS3 was the backwards compatibility and the rumble function. The latter is just a gimmick, and the PS3 compensates a lot for the lack of this gimmick. Besides, backwards compatibility will be available via software emulation eventualy.

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I also didn't want to include those numbers because until the PSP Sony wasn't even considering the handheld market, so they put all their eggs into the console basket. The PSP could also be an early example of Sony making all their advantages into disadvantages. All the PSP had to do to be successful was port a few Playstation 1 games along with some new originals that took advantage of the graphics processing. But they had to push the goddamn UMD thing along with marketing a bunch of movies nobody would want to watch full-screen let alone on the tiny PSP screen.


The PS1 games for the PSP were remakes rather than ports, as the PSP is much more powerfull than the PS1. The movie function on the PSP is good to have when travelling, allthough I can see why the movies flopped. It was about time an optical system hit the handheld market; cartridges are way out of date, and the memory cards on the DS are damn expensive.


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Vexcalibur
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13 Oct 2008, 9:09 am

Keith wrote:
I would say the use of discs, they get easily damaged, nothing wrong with the good old reliable cartridge ROM's


I loved the first playstation because of CDs, piracy finally worked so I could have hundreds of games, unlike the SNES where I only had very few games...


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kleodimus
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13 Oct 2008, 12:58 pm

i tend to look at what they have done and not what they havent done but if i had to say one it would be the fact that they keeb bringing out different models... i kinda felt backstabbed when they mentioned 60gb about a month after my bday


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PhR33kY
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15 Oct 2008, 11:18 pm

PS3 and all the crap related to it.

In a close second is the glitchy PSP.



black_legion
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16 Oct 2008, 7:08 am

i've gotta say sony screw up everything