Can one be both conservative and tolerant?

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Kraichgauer
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26 Feb 2017, 9:47 pm

Misslizard wrote:

Yes.There are some that care about helping the poor and the enviroment.It all depends on the person,not the party.
Winrock International is the brain child of Govenor Wintrop Rockefeller,a Republican.
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/e ... tryID=3042

Rockefeller, though, lived in a time when there were liberal and conservative Republicans, and liberal and conservative Democrats, unlike today where the parties are politically polarized.

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26 Feb 2017, 10:58 pm

Also, keep in mind there are Republicans who support same-sex marriage and/or pro-abortion. Likewise, some Democrats are socially conservative.

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Chronos
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26 Feb 2017, 11:35 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Also, keep in mind there are Republicans who support same-sex marriage and/or pro-abortion. Likewise, some Democrats are socially conservative.

I've never encountered a socially conservative democrat. Perhaps because I'm in a socially liberal region. I suspect that these socially conservative democrats are more likely to be on the east coast. The democratic party there seems to be more associated with the working class and unions.

eric76
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26 Feb 2017, 11:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

How about instead of talking about conservatives opposing change, we talk about conservatives upholding tradition? I keep putting forth definitions of conservatism which serve my argument, and I don't see any others forthcoming. Don't assume we all agree on what words mean; it's just another bizarre generalization.

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Here is another example of conservative tolerance. Most Republicans of the 1850s and 1860s opposed slavery and supported the Emancipation Proclamation.

Back in those day, the Republicans hardly were conservatives, as they not only supported emancipation, but also opposed states rights in favor of centralized government. If anything, the southern wing of the Democrats were the far right conservatives of their day, with their racial bias and emphasis on states having the right to discriminate on the grounds of that racial bias. While political ideologies remained, the parties that they were associated with changed hands, especially with the support of civil rights by the northern wing of the Democratic party, which was far more liberal by the mid 20th century compared to their southern counterparts. Then the Reagan Revolution ended up converting virtually all white Democrats in the south to the Republican party.

What is considered to be "conservative" has varied quite a bit over time. For example, it used to be that conservatism was quite anti-Capitalistic.

The American use of "liberal" has changed, too. Today's liberals are hardly the liberals of a century ago -- the term liberal has been taken over by wimps and socialists. Sometimes, the term Classical Liberal is used to refer to those would have been considered a liberal in the old days.

Two of the great achievements of Liberalism are Capitalism and the US Constitution. Both are very liberal even though those known as liberals in the US today tend to be anything from somewhat against to very much against both of those.

The US party closer to the Classical Liberalism is the Libertarian Party, but they take it to ridiculous extremes that make a mockery of Classical Liberalism. I am always appalled at the influence of Ayn Rand and her Objectivism on the Libertarian Party. For what it's worth, when she was alive, she detested the Libertarian Party. With their adoration of Ayn Rand, they make the Libertarian Party into a collection of largely pathetic losers.

Anyway, what is Conservative is always changing, and often not for the better, especially with the election of Trump.

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26 Feb 2017, 11:46 pm

Chronos wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

Also, keep in mind there are Republicans who support same-sex marriage and/or pro-abortion. Likewise, some Democrats are socially conservative.

Many of the more socially conservative Democrats became Republicans when the Democrats changed more than they could tolerate. Phil Gramm, for example.

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26 Feb 2017, 11:57 pm

eric76 wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

Also, keep in mind there are Republicans who support same-sex marriage and/or pro-abortion. Likewise, some Democrats are socially conservative.

Many of the more socially conservative Democrats became Republicans when the Democrats changed more than they could tolerate. Phil Gramm, for example.

From a Slate Article

"Gramm has always been more passionate about the presidency than policy. He is a pure political calculator: Before he switched parties, he polled to make sure he would win re-election as a Republican. Gramm tailored his economic conservatism in order to build a national base of supporters. He rejiggered his views on social issues for the same reason. Gramm has no interest in social conservatism. He tried to invest in a soft-core porn movie in the early '70s, and he once told religious right leaders, "I ain't running for preacher." He doesn't really care about abortion, homosexuality, or school prayer. But Gramm exploits them happily. In his 1984 Senate race, he made the fact that his Democratic opponent accepted a contribution from a gay group the centerpiece of his strategy. Gramm endorsed a constitutional ban on abortion in his '96 presidential campaign."

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27 Feb 2017, 1:17 am

Chronos wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

Also, keep in mind there are Republicans who support same-sex marriage and/or pro-abortion. Likewise, some Democrats are socially conservative.

They're mostly found in the South. Sens. Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Joe Donnelly (D-IN) are the most prominent examples, and there are quite a few in the House.

Liberal Republicans are mostly found in the northeast and the West Coast. Sens. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), and Govs. Charlie Baker and Phil Scott, from MA and VT, respectively, are major examples.

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JVM23
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27 Feb 2017, 1:27 pm

If you're Hank Hill from 'King of the Hill', then yes.

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27 Feb 2017, 1:44 pm

Up until the 1970's the moderate/liberal wing of the Republican Party was an important element of the party. These days they are to put it mildly outliers, ostracized as a Republican in Name Only.

Same process with the the Dems. In the 1960's there was a powerful wing of the party that was openly racist and socially conservative. That a large chuck, if not half the party thinks Tom Perez is too conservative speaks volumes. The man during his career has advocated and acted upon many "progressive" policies.

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27 Feb 2017, 6:06 pm

I tend to be center-right on most things, though if I were to run for public office, I would likely run as an independent, because there is too much stigma to being a Republican.

I am afraid to even criticize or disagree with someone who isn't a white, straight, cis-gender, Christian male out of fear of being called a bigot. That's worse than being accused of a violent crime.

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jrjones9933
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27 Feb 2017, 6:33 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

I am afraid to even criticize or disagree with someone who isn't a white, straight, cis-gender, Christian male out of fear of being called a bigot. That's worse than being accused of a violent crime.

Persecution fantasy, knitted together from right wing opinion media, and with no basis in real life.

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27 Feb 2017, 9:21 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

The key word there should be accused. Accusations of racism or bigotry are most often without substance and meant only to put the accused on the defensive and shut them down. The accusers are SJW type as*holes trying to stifle your opinions or beliefs. Racism is as racism does and if you're a true racist you won't need to be told.

I have a few times IRL given my accuser(s) what they are not expecting ended the conversation with them by saying "I'd like to stay and chat but I've got a cross burning to attend and it's my turn to furnish the cross" or ""I'd like to stay and chat but I've gotta go home and polish my jackboots for tonight's beer hall putsch and book burning". They do not expect that and the reaction is priceless. Any butthurt experienced can be written off as self inflicted since they could have avoided it by keeping thier pie holes shut.

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27 Feb 2017, 9:22 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I am afraid to even criticize or disagree with someone who isn't a white, straight, cis-gender, Christian male out of fear of being called a bigot. That's worse than being accused of a violent crime.

Persecution fantasy, knitted together from right wing opinion media, and with no basis in real life.

Really??
I got accused of racism a few times IRL for not voting for Obama.

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Tim_Tex
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27 Feb 2017, 9:34 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

I am afraid to even criticize or disagree with someone who isn't a white, straight, cis-gender, Christian male out of fear of being called a bigot. That's worse than being accused of a violent crime.

Persecution fantasy, knitted together from right wing opinion media, and with no basis in real life.

Actually, I was going by comment boards on various news sites.

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27 Feb 2017, 9:54 pm

Raptor wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

So, essentially, you're tired of your trolling being taken seriously and then being accurately labelled based on a serious interpretation of the opinions you've expressed? How dare your edgy humour not be viewed for the comedic gold it is? It sounds like your own butthurt could be avoided by keeping your own piehole shut.

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27 Feb 2017, 10:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

So, essentially, you're tired of your trolling being taken seriously and then being accurately labelled based on a serious interpretation of the opinions you've expressed?

Go back and find examples of me expressing a racist opinion here.
I double dog dare ya.

Quote:

How dare your edgy humour not be viewed for the comedic gold it is? It sounds like your own butthurt could be avoided by keeping your own piehole shut.

Don't hold your breath waiting for me to keep my pie hole shut. The more people want me to keep it shut the W-I-D-E-R it gets. :twisted:

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