Trump's Policy Agenda More Scandalous than his Russian Ties

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Kraichgauer
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23 Jun 2017, 1:36 am

SH90 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As I recall, the middle class had begun is long slide into oblivion during the Reagan years, long before Obama.

Reagan (one of the greatest presidents) stabilized the economy after one of the worse presidents, Carter destroyed it... High tax rates killed jobs and investment, bringing in less money for the government. Reagan cut tax rates and regulation, giving confidence back to employers. Resulting in a significant drop in unemployment, nearly 50%. In turn, bringing in more tax revenue for the government.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Working class people using the power of organizing and going on strike, as well as negotiations, in order to make corporations share in the money, that workers had produced, in fact had created the middle class following WWII.

That ultimately resulted in violence, inflation and made us less competitive globally.

Kraichgauer wrote:
If you want to call that wealth redistribution, well then, it clearly works.

ACA is a clear example of wealth redistribution and it clearly doesn't work.


Under Reagan, the working class began losing ground, especially as their unions were weakened. From there, working people had less buying power, and so the businesses they patronized suffered as well. Ultimately, the only ones who got richer were those already rich. They were allowed to get away with making shoddy products, and to sell out the American people by going overseas. That trickle down bullsh*t is just that: bullsh*t, as little of that wealth trickled down to the American people.
No, the heyday of organized labor had seen expansion in the American economy, as far more Americans were allowed to reach middle class status. My dad had such a good wage with benefits thanks to the United Steelworkers Union that we lived very comfortably, and my mom didn't have to work when I was growing up. There is zero possibility that that could possibly be a bad thing.
And what violence? Seriously.
For all it's faults, the ACA gave millions of Americans medical coverage that they had previously been denied due to poverty or preexisting conditions. Let's see the Republicans accomplish that. And by the way, the ACA was in large part originally a Republican plan, dreamt up by the Heritage Foundation (a right wing think tank born out of opposition to civil rights).
And no, while Reagan was a popular President, that hardly made him a great President. He had engineered the decline of American greatness with his supply side economics, and his social conservative stance.


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jrjones9933
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23 Jun 2017, 10:24 am

It's also wealth redistribution when the workers don't get a raise commensurate with their productivity, but executive compensation increases by orders of magnitude. It's also wealth redistribution when businesses default on their pension obligations to bail out investors.

The Reagan tax reform was needed, but the lesson should have been that the correct level of taxes will stimulate economic growth, not that lower taxes are always better. Likewise, not that deficit spending is always good, but that deficit spending works to overcome irrational malaise.

I like some things about conservatism, but I chose to apply them situationally, where appropriate. The hardcore supporters have eschewed any such complicated ideas.


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StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 11:39 am

SH90 wrote:
Reagan stabilized the economy after one of the worse presidents, Carter destroyed it... High tax rates killed jobs and investment, bringing in less money for the government. Reagan cut tax rates and regulation, giving confidence back to employers. Resulting in a significant drop in unemployment, nearly 50%. In turn, bringing in more tax revenue for the government.


Source?

Wikipedia wrote:
Prior to the Reagan administration, the United States economy experienced a decade of rising unemployment and inflation (known as stagflation). Political pressure favored stimulus resulting in an expansion of the money supply. President Richard Nixon's wage and price controls were phased out. The federal oil reserves were created to ease any future short term shocks. President Jimmy Carter had begun phasing out price controls on petroleum while he created the Department of Energy. Much of the credit for the resolution of the stagflation is given to two causes: a three-year contraction of the money supply by the Federal Reserve Board under Paul Volcker, initiated in the last year of Carter's presidency, and long-term easing of supply and pricing in oil during the 1980s oil glut.


Also

Wikipedia wrote:
During Reagan's presidency, the national debt grew from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion. This led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.


You don't excoriate President Reagan for this?

SH90 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Working class people using the power of organizing and going on strike, as well as negotiations, in order to make corporations share in the money, that workers had produced, in fact had created the middle class following WWII.

That ultimately resulted in violence, inflation and made us less competitive globally.


Source?

SH90 wrote:
ACA is a clear example of wealth redistribution and it clearly doesn't work.


Source? Even President Trump admitted that Australia's health care system is better than ours.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2017, 11:44 am

We had "stagflation," primarily, under Presidents Ford and Carter. It actually started around 1970, with Nixon. I lived through those times.

I'm not a Republican, and I'm not a great fan of Reagan's policies.

But the fact is.....after 1982 or so, the economy in the US improved dramatically.



StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But the fact is.....after 1982 or so, the economy in the US improved dramatically.


By what measure?



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

By many measures. Interest rates went down. Inflation went down. Earnings, etc., went up.

It was a better time for many than what occurred in the 1970s.

y many measures. Interest rates went down. Inflation went down. Earnings, etc., went up.

It was a better time for many than what occurred in the 1970s.

Unfortunately, the poor stayed poor, by and large.

Stagflation was more a 1970s phenomenon. I don't believe it would have mattered who the President was. It happened under both Republicans and Democrats.

But....like anything else, it depends on where you are. Cities probably did better than rural areas in the 1980s. Unfortunately, the poor stayed poor, by and large, though.



StinkyDog
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23 Jun 2017, 3:59 pm