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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Feb 2018, 8:34 pm

For those autistics who may feel drawn to philosophies that discount the emotional aspects of life as irrelevant compared to the logical faculties because of our innate difficulties understanding and processing our own emotional states, I encourage you to have a thought for the value of emotions in the human experience. Although it's an area we (on the spectrum) may have difficulties with, I think that makes it so much more important that we attempt to understand this part of ourselves, and how critical emotions are to the way our minds--and our logical faculties--function.

Some food for thought:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/books ... -i-am.html

https://jmeqvist.wordpress.com/2013/06/ ... intuition/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/on ... nd-damasio

http://www.hsnsw.asn.au/articles/Reason ... -MDoig.pdf

https://polisci.osu.edu/sites/polisci.o ... 4Web_0.pdf

Our emotions are not the enemy, they are integral to our consciousness and our ability to function in a human world. Fear of the unknown is natural, but we should resist the temptation to dismiss emotionalism as unimportant just because we struggle with understanding our own emotional states. If you want to find a place for yourself in a world full of thinking feeling human beings, you need to have a basic grasp of your own internal emotional landscape and how that internal landscape effects your own perceptions.



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2018, 8:56 pm

I think the 'Right and Left Brain in spirituality' post I made yesterday evening, really an interview of Iain McGilchrist by Jordan Peterson where they discussed Iain's Master and Emissary got pretty close to the core of this.

Seems there are certain parts of our brain geared toward handling much fuzzier and more abstract global problems, in this case the right brain, while we perceive our 'I' experience most often out of the left hemisphere. I don't think it's particularly wise for people to either over-deflate or over-elevate the value of said mechanisms. Those parts of us look for broader patterns in chaos, maybe something similar to what deep learning algorithms do, and that gets kicked back at us as either feelings or intuitions. I think it's why those parts are also more linked with music and art, ie. they're more abstract representations of mathematical truths. Also quite often when people talk about mandalas (such as with Hindu meditation systems) I often see the likeness between these and Fourier transforms.

People have confused this part of the brain for being synonymous with disorganized and superstitious thinking but I think that's more the fault of the individuals interpreting that side of themselves that way, or in certain times in our history the lack of information available.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Feb 2018, 9:26 pm

I want to add that emotions are important factors in motivation, and the better we understand our own emotions and how they impact our thinking and our decision-making the better we can harness them and direct them in more positive and constructive ways.

There is an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Data is talking to Counselor Troi and she tells him that there is no such thing as a negative emotion, in that emotions themselves have no intrinsic moral value but how we choose to act on them dictates whether our emotional states can be measured as good or bad. For example: being angry does not make one a bad person in and of itself, because there are many different ways to act on anger; one can use anger to become violent and destructive, or one can use anger as a motivation to fight injustice, or even just to remain physically fit and active which has a more neutral social moral value.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Feb 2018, 9:33 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think the 'Right and Left Brain in spirituality' post I made yesterday evening, really an interview of Iain McGilchrist by Jordan Peterson where they discussed Iain's Master and Emissary got pretty close to the core of this.

Seems there are certain parts of our brain geared toward handling much fuzzier and more abstract global problems, in this case the right brain, while we perceive our 'I' experience most often out of the left hemisphere. I don't think it's particularly wise for people to either over-deflate or over-elevate the value of said mechanisms. Those parts of us look for broader patterns in chaos, maybe something similar to what deep learning algorithms do, and that gets kicked back at us as either feelings or intuitions. I think it's why those parts are also more linked with music and art, ie. they're more abstract representations of mathematical truths. Also quite often when people talk about mandalas (such as with Hindu meditation systems) I often see the likeness between these and Fourier transforms.

People have confused this part of the brain for being synonymous with disorganized and superstitious thinking but I think that's more the fault of the individuals interpreting that side of themselves that way, or in certain times in our history the lack of information available.


Yes, the problem I have is when one is valued more than the other rather than both being understood as equally necessary to our conscious processes and our interpretations of reality. When I say one is valued more than the other I am speaking of the logic vs. emotion dichotomy.

My point is that as autistic people I think there is a tendency to intellectually shy away from areas where we struggle, and this is to our detriment because it's part of what leads to our social difficulties. It's just easier to function in the world when you have a better understanding of how your emotions work and how they effect you. It's practically useful to understand and value one's own emotionality. Autistic people struggle with cognitive empathy--having a better intellectual understanding of one's own feelings leads to better cognitive empathy. We can learn to compensate for areas of innate difficulty, it is possible.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Feb 2018, 10:03 pm

And how is it that I am not automatically subscribed to get emails when someone posts in a thread I make?



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18 Feb 2018, 10:37 pm

I, unfortunately, was born into a culture that regards anything that isn't being loud and aggressive as being a "whiny baby" or "p****". I was never encouraged to go past certain lines because it was either "against God" or "Dude, reading is gay!" or something else anti-intellectual. Instead of respecting or allowing me to explore my feelings, I was either told that the "devil" was responsible for making me feel sad or that I needed to "suck it up".
These are horrible things to tell people on the spectrum because it's tamping down on abstract thought and disregarding our feelings.
A large part of the depression I suffer from is because I was constantly being told "Don't do this, don't do that!" and my brain feels fixed.



techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2018, 11:06 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
And how is it that I am not automatically subscribed to get emails when someone posts in a thread I make?

Go to your account and then:

Options -> Board preferences -> Edit posting defaults.

You should have 'Notify me upon replies by default' set to 'Yes'.


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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin


techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2018, 11:09 pm

Marknis wrote:
I, unfortunately, was born into a culture that regards anything that isn't being loud and aggressive as being a "whiny baby" or "p****". I was never encouraged to go past certain lines because it was either "against God" or "Dude, reading is gay!" or something else anti-intellectual. Instead of respecting or allowing me to explore my feelings, I was either told that the "devil" was responsible for making me feel sad or that I needed to "suck it up".

Most human beings are simply apes butt-%^&*ing each other. It's all they want to do, it's all they know how to do, they'd be heartbroken and lost in the world without it, and they tend to ridicule much of anyone whose past their intellectual capacities or limits because what they can't perceive literally doesn't exist per their subjective experience.

High-functioning NT's share nearly all of the same grief we do.


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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 12:09 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
And how is it that I am not automatically subscribed to get emails when someone posts in a thread I make?

Go to your account and then:

Options -> Board preferences -> Edit posting defaults.

You should have 'Notify me upon replies by default' set to 'Yes'.


Thank you. :)



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 12:19 am

Marknis wrote:
I, unfortunately, was born into a culture that regards anything that isn't being loud and aggressive as being a "whiny baby" or "p****". I was never encouraged to go past certain lines because it was either "against God" or "Dude, reading is gay!" or something else anti-intellectual. Instead of respecting or allowing me to explore my feelings, I was either told that the "devil" was responsible for making me feel sad or that I needed to "suck it up".
These are horrible things to tell people on the spectrum because it's tamping down on abstract thought and disregarding our feelings.
A large part of the depression I suffer from is because I was constantly being told "Don't do this, don't do that!" and my brain feels fixed.


I think part of the problem for many guys on the spectrum is the awful gendered way we raise children, that we don't teach boys about emotional intelligence the same way we do with girls. It's not fair and it leaves autistic men at a distinct disadvantage socially.



Closet Genious
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19 Feb 2018, 1:08 am

Morality based on feelings leads to injustice.
Logical analyses of problems is the only way not to end in total chaos, otherwise people can use their feelings to self justify horrible decisions.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 1:37 am

Closet Genious wrote:
Morality based on feelings leads to injustice.
Logical analyses of problems is the only way not to end in total chaos, otherwise people can use their feelings to self justify horrible decisions.


I'm sorry that's all you took away from the information in the links I provided. Did you at least read them? If you read them and considered carefully, that's all I can ask.



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19 Feb 2018, 2:06 am

I think people should be aware of different contexts and the importance of emotion and rationality therein...

The context you are referring to in this thread has to do with the broader context of life in general...
The context involving discussion forums involves a different intellectual/emotional mix... :wink:



shortfatbalduglyman
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19 Feb 2018, 3:38 pm

Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

Some extroverts act like, "I talk, therefore I am"



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 3:47 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

Some extroverts act like, "I talk, therefore I am"


Yes, I am aware of that. It talks about Descartes and Spinoza in the first article I linked in my OP. It's where the title of this thread came from.

Perhaps it might be worth examining why so many people here view feelings and a desire to socialize with others with contempt. Being anti-social is fine, but to be that way and then complain that other people don't want to be around you and won't accept you as you are seems infinitely foolish. This is not a forum for anti-social personality disorder, it's a forum for people with autism, and many autistic people have emotions and desire human connection and interaction.



Pepe
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19 Feb 2018, 5:55 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

Some extroverts act like, "I talk, therefore I am"


Yes, I am aware of that. It talks about Descartes and Spinoza in the first article I linked in my OP. It's where the title of this thread came from.

Perhaps it might be worth examining why so many people here view feelings and a desire to socialize with others with contempt. Being anti-social is fine, but to be that way and then complain that other people don't want to be around you and won't accept you as you are seems infinitely foolish. This is not a forum for anti-social personality disorder, it's a forum for people with autism, and many autistic people have emotions and desire human connection and interaction.


But ultimately, it is a person's choice how they live their life...
Freedom of thought and all that pesky stuff... :wink: