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Exclavius
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14 May 2010, 7:29 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Likewise, the word omniscient means knowing all that can be known. If man has free will, as you say, our choices effect what the future will be so the future cannot be known until we make them; so that rather kills your earlier argument about an “all knowing god cannot change the future, because he knows what it is already.”


I can't quite grant you that point, NobelCynic.
There is nothing in logic that would interfere with the knowledge of what the future holds. It would not be something that the god would calculate, because if that were the case, one would have to assume away free will. But the god could just "know." It would thus have to know the impact of every one of it's own actions or inactions that would lead up to the decisions made by the freewill-conduit (human).
Your logical lapse is only in assuming he would have to calculate the future to know it, as opposed to shall we call it intuitive knowledge.



NobelCynic
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14 May 2010, 10:21 am

Exclavius wrote:
There is nothing in logic that would interfere with the knowledge of what the future holds.

1) Man has free will meaning it is man who decides his own actions.
2) Mens actions effect the actions of other men.
3) It is the actions of humanity that decide the future on earth.
4) The future of earth is not yet decided.

Exclavius wrote:
It would not be something that the god would calculate, because if that were the case, one would have to assume away free will.

You seem to have a strange definition of free will. The way you explain it, man has about as much free will as a computer executing a program that God wrote. The way I define it, God gave us the ability to modify our own programs.


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Maranatha
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14 May 2010, 10:54 am

NobelCynic wrote:
God gave us the ability to modify our own programs.


And prayer is what's left once the script has been trashed.