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auntblabby
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30 Oct 2010, 9:31 am

"logic is just the beginning of wisdom."



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 9:40 am

auntblabby wrote:
"logic is just the beginning of wisdom."


Logic is the organization of argumentation.



Awesomelyglorious
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30 Oct 2010, 9:41 am

I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 9:45 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.


That history was merely what was presented in my humanities textbook, so if the history is wrong then so is the textbook. If you want to call the textbook wrong, I would not be opposed.



Awesomelyglorious
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30 Oct 2010, 9:52 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.


That history was merely what was presented in my humanities textbook, so if the history is wrong then so is the textbook. If you want to call the textbook wrong, I would not be opposed.

Unless your professor is a historian of philosophy, then anything it presents on that topic is likely incredibly wrong.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 10:04 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.


That history was merely what was presented in my humanities textbook, so if the history is wrong then so is the textbook. If you want to call the textbook wrong, I would not be opposed.

Unless your professor is a historian of philosophy, then anything it presents on that topic is likely incredibly wrong.

What professor? Rash-Mustard Cell-age only hires "instructors" which range from any form of credentials as PhD in Insanity to Drunk Hobo Off The Street.

The textbook was incredibly wrong in many areas, but I hoped they might at least be right about the hero worship they pay to the Darkening of the Western Mind Philosophers.



leejosepho
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30 Oct 2010, 10:17 am

Sand wrote:
Emotions, to a large extent, form the basis and motivation for logical thinking. Fear, hate, love, lust, hunger pain, thirst, etc. present the motivation for solving problems of attaining goals. Achieving those goals successfully usually involves the necessity for rational and logical thinking.

Yes, that is how I see things. It is logical (and even if "emotionally logical") to make decisions which make positive emotional responses or feelings at least possible, but decisions are still best-made from logic rather than from emotion. Emotionally-driven decisions can/might be viewed as "emotionally logical", but making decisions in that way is not always (and maybe even seldom) actually wise. From within the party of "Mr. Faith (Belief), Mr. Facts and Mr. Feelings", Mr. Feelings is far from being the dependable leader.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm not claiming that emotions are the source of independent thought ...
I see emotions as a type of amplifier to motivate actions ...

I would certainly agree there, yet that is where emotions can actually end up ahead of facts and cause trouble ... yet I can still see situations there where emotions can be necessary in relation to the avoidance of apathy or "just giving up" ... such as in some of your work-related experiences.


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ruveyn
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30 Oct 2010, 12:27 pm

auntblabby wrote:
"logic is just the beginning of wisdom."


Logic is the science or discipline of valid inference.

Wisdom is not included.

ruveyn



Awesomelyglorious
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30 Oct 2010, 1:49 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.


That history was merely what was presented in my humanities textbook, so if the history is wrong then so is the textbook. If you want to call the textbook wrong, I would not be opposed.

Unless your professor is a historian of philosophy, then anything it presents on that topic is likely incredibly wrong.

What professor? Rash-Mustard Cell-age only hires "instructors" which range from any form of credentials as PhD in Insanity to Drunk Hobo Off The Street.

The textbook was incredibly wrong in many areas, but I hoped they might at least be right about the hero worship they pay to the Darkening of the Western Mind Philosophers.

Textbooks are usually written by professors of some sort.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 2:15 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I really believe that the dichotomy goes before Nietzsche. Even further, Nietzsche's distinction is a lot broader, as it isn't just "reason vs emotion". Even further, the "reason vs emotion" dichotomy goes well before Nietzsche. If anything, Nietzsche really deeply opposed the dichotomy due to his view that human beings really reduced down more to their deeper impulses, rather than some being guided by reason, and others being guided by emotion. The latter really seems more implicit in Western rationalism, and the Enlightenment, which makes Hume's skepticism on reason more revolutionary of a conception. Heck, Nietzsche isn't that influential in the circles very likely to hold to this dichotomy, so, I think that the intellectual history you present is likely wrong, 'keet.


That history was merely what was presented in my humanities textbook, so if the history is wrong then so is the textbook. If you want to call the textbook wrong, I would not be opposed.

Unless your professor is a historian of philosophy, then anything it presents on that topic is likely incredibly wrong.

What professor? Rash-Mustard Cell-age only hires "instructors" which range from any form of credentials as PhD in Insanity to Drunk Hobo Off The Street.

The textbook was incredibly wrong in many areas, but I hoped they might at least be right about the hero worship they pay to the Darkening of the Western Mind Philosophers.

Textbooks are usually written by professors of some sort.


Good textbooks are usually written by experts of some sort or another, unless they come from Cenage Learning or other textbook mills of the sort where they just churn out crap faster than a horse.



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31 Oct 2010, 11:53 am

Why take your next breath?

The anwer is because youd rather live.

Why then do you wanna be alive?

Does your desire to be alive come from a slide rule, or a mathmatical therom?

No. Its an instinct, a drive that comes from the gut.

How you survive may involve logic - in holding down a job - but the disire to live- to seek joy- etc- those have nothing to do with logic.

Logic helps provide the means but never the ends.


So there is no such thing as living by pure logic.

The decision to be alive in the first place is an irrational act.



leejosepho
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31 Oct 2010, 12:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Why take your next breath?

Breathing is automatic -- I do not recall ever having to decide to breathe!

naturalplastic wrote:
Why then do you wanna be alive?
...
Its an instinct, a drive that comes from the gut.

... the desire to live- to seek joy- etc- those have nothing to do with logic.

Possibly not at the conscious level, yet our inherent instincts are certainly logical along the line of providing or driving desire.

naturalplastic wrote:
The decision to be alive in the first place is an irrational act.

How, when or where did we even decide that? And, I am not meaning to be argumentative here.


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Asmodeus
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01 Nov 2010, 6:37 pm

If you condense your decision making process into a system of pure logic it will become meaningless; without a goal.
If you reduce it to logically following one static goal it'll be heartless, or boring.
Conversely, if you're guided cheifly by emotion, your television can tell you what to do.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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01 Nov 2010, 6:40 pm

I had little emotions during my teen years. I never want to go through that again. Emotionless existence is hollow.


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ruveyn
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01 Nov 2010, 7:14 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I had little emotions during my teen years. I never want to go through that again. Emotionless existence is hollow.


But peaceful.

ruveyn