Muslim families in Winnipeg want children excused from

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murphycop
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09 Feb 2011, 12:50 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Its not about forcing them, its about them forcing us to change things for us. If they don't like the way things are, they have the "freedom of choice" to go somewhere else.


And again, these people are not forcing anyone to do anything. They simply do not want their children to attend certain lessons. Lessons that are COMPULSORY. Who exactly is forcing whom?
Why exactly are children FORCED to study music or PE? Especially music.


I don't know, why are children FORCED to study English, maybe the Muslims kids shouldn't have to do that? Maybe everyone should choose what they want to study, and when they want to go to school.

I know its a big difference between this and the fact Muslims want our culture to suit them, but thanks to certain people, its happening. I wonder what tourists think when they arrive in London, they must wonder if they're in the right country.


oh, so you are suggesting before THEY came there was a presumed purity of your culture. You are fearful of losing cultural identity, and desire to eliminate the presence of the 'other' by having them assimilate into what you perceive as 'normal' without examining your actual cultural make up to discover how people thought that about your kind before people you now approve of became the political, economic, ideological or cultural power where you are.

We have pockets of people with your attitude in the States, too.


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Pointing out that you have a "kind" is a personal attack? I thought you were all about "your people" and how their culture is being destroyed by the evil Muslim hordes? Surely you WANT to be associated with unsullied White Christian Anglo-Saxon culture and all its purity? They are YOUR FOLK. Where is your solidarity?


So what kind was she placing "ME" as?


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09 Feb 2011, 12:52 pm

murphycop wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
Why do you always have to troll around here?


Somehow if you have some right wing views you're a troll?

I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


what country are you nattering on about? Why are you talking about religion of the people you are not appreciative of and then talk about politics? What is it, religion or politics?


Religion turns into politics when Islam protesters are holding signs saying "British soldiers burn in hell" and "massacre those who insult Muslim". And its labelled their right, as its their freedom of expression, but if it was the other way round, it would be unnaceptable.


And that IS indeed unacceptable...but it is IN NO WAY the same thing as not wanting your child to attend a specific kind of lesson. I'm pretty sure that nobody in this thread thinks that such vitriol is a good thing, or supports the spitting of such bilious hatred. But I do think that most of the people in this thread NOT demanding an end to Islam are also supportive of the right to personal choice..and that is what this is about. ANY parent should have the right to hold forth about how their child is being educated, for whatever reason, religious or otherwise.

You are conflating two different groups together. Some Muslim parents who don't wish their children to be involved in Western Music (because as already stated, Music is NOT forbidden in Islam.) and who don't like the idea of mixed sex PE lessons (just like many older white Christian conservative types.) They aren't threatening anyone and they certainly aren't attacking anyone. Then there are a bunch of militant fools fighting a war that should have ended 400 years or more ago.

(Incidentally, those placards and shouts actually constitute threatening behaviour and should have been prosecuted as such, but the Police tend to be very hands-off with such a sensitive area unless actual physicality is involved, because it only takes one bad arrest to kick off a riot, a la Los Angeles.)


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murphycop
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09 Feb 2011, 1:12 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
Why do you always have to troll around here?


Somehow if you have some right wing views you're a troll?

I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


what country are you nattering on about? Why are you talking about religion of the people you are not appreciative of and then talk about politics? What is it, religion or politics?


Religion turns into politics when Islam protesters are holding signs saying "British soldiers burn in hell" and "massacre those who insult Muslim". And its labelled their right, as its their freedom of expression, but if it was the other way round, it would be unnaceptable.


And that IS indeed unacceptable...but it is IN NO WAY the same thing as not wanting your child to attend a specific kind of lesson. I'm pretty sure that nobody in this thread thinks that such vitriol is a good thing, or supports the spitting of such bilious hatred. But I do think that most of the people in this thread NOT demanding an end to Islam are also supportive of the right to personal choice..and that is what this is about. ANY parent should have the right to hold forth about how their child is being educated, for whatever reason, religious or otherwise.

You are conflating two different groups together. Some Muslim parents who don't wish their children to be involved in Western Music (because as already stated, Music is NOT forbidden in Islam.) and who don't like the idea of mixed sex PE lessons (just like many older white Christian conservative types.) They aren't threatening anyone and they certainly aren't attacking anyone. Then there are a bunch of militant fools fighting a war that should have ended 400 years or more ago.

(Incidentally, those placards and shouts actually constitute threatening behaviour and should have been prosecuted as such, but the Police tend to be very hands-off with such a sensitive area unless actual physicality is involved, because it only takes one bad arrest to kick off a riot, a la Los Angeles.)


Trouble is, its a religious thing. Its just another situation, added to endless list of things that we have to do, or they don't have to do, cause of their religion. A woman not being able to wear a cross round her neck, a male terrorist fleeing the country, wearing a burka(not being able to ask him to take it off). School teacher offending a muslim student, for using the word "ham". Schools dropping teaching the Holocaust, cause its offends them. Its neverending. So its not just about the PE lessons.


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09 Feb 2011, 1:17 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Its not about forcing them, its about them forcing us to change things for us. If they don't like the way things are, they have the "freedom of choice" to go somewhere else.


And again, these people are not forcing anyone to do anything. They simply do not want their children to attend certain lessons. Lessons that are COMPULSORY. Who exactly is forcing whom?
Why exactly are children FORCED to study music or PE? Especially music.


I don't know, why are children FORCED to study English, maybe the Muslims kids shouldn't have to do that? Maybe everyone should choose what they want to study, and when they want to go to school.

I know its a big difference between this and the fact Muslims want our culture to suit them, but thanks to certain people, its happening. I wonder what tourists think when they arrive in London, they must wonder if they're in the right country.


English is a communication tool. We learn it so that we can communicate more effectively with one another. That is the perfectly good reason why it is compulsory. PE (in theory) builds physical fitness and encourages team-work. THAT is fairly understandable as a compulsory lesson, because a reasonable standard of fitness helps us to stay alive and not be grotesque lardies....but then these people didn't say they wouldn't let their kids do PE..they just aren't comfortable with MIXED PE lessons. After a certain level, our PE lessons stopped being mixed a great deal anyway and we never had "mixed" changing facilities, not since little school, so I can't see how it is that big of a jump. IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL so get off your right-wing hobby horse.

Knock it off with the reductio absurdum. Music lessons being optional is NOT the same as letting kids choose when they want to go to school.


So why did an English guy get rejected from a job, because he couldn't speak Polish? Mixed lessons, whats wrong with that, what happened to equality? I guess people just play the equality card when it suits. Well get off your hypocrisy horse, mixed changing facilities and mixed PE lessons, are two complete different things. All this left wing hypocrisy and double standards, then making out right wing always means bad, reminds me of a quote.

"Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves."


There are as many arguments AGAINST mixed lessons as there are FOR them, which is one of the reasons why many schools had single-sex lessons for years, and why many people still feel they are more suitable in education. Some private schools still have single-sex lessons. But this isn't a debate about which one of those is right. And mixed or unmixed lessons are not about "equality" either. Who is supposed to be "playing the equality card" here exactly? You demand that some students be forced into taking certain lessons because everyone should be treated the same, and now seem to think that I am arguing AGAINST mixed lessons based on equality when I mentioned no such thing. Sort yourself out eh?

I don't think you actually understand how to use the term "hypocrisy" correctly. Possibly you are actually meaning "contradictory." You still wouldn't be right, but it would be a more correct term. I did refer to BOTH mixed changing and mixed lessons in the same example. I am aware of the difference and similarity between the two. Try reading the whole sentence before posting.

Also, try pulling your head out of the stereotyping bucket. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't de facto make them a left-wing liberal or any such thing. But then I suppose your whole position is predicated on ill-informed stereotyping, so I shouldn't be too surprised when you apply the same ignorance to me and the other people in this thread who actually like to think about why people do what they do.

Oh, and that guy who didn;t get the job because he couldn't speak Polish.. wasn't that the job working with LOADS of Poles who all speak Polish? Was it a Pole doing the hiring? No, I believe it was not. Hey, I once went for a job as a Fork-lift driver.. I didn't get it because I can't drive a Fork-Lift. Which minority should I blame for that? I'm addressing this first bit last because it has NOTHING to do with the thread at all. What are you trying to say? That Polish should be compulsory? That english SHOULDN'T be compulsory because it clearly didn't help that one guy get a job working with foreign people? High english grades won't get you ANY job where you have to deal with large numbers of foreign-language speakers. Those jobs require good grades in the relevant language.


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09 Feb 2011, 1:48 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Mindslave wrote:
Why do you always have to troll around here?


Somehow if you have some right wing views you're a troll?

I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


what country are you nattering on about? Why are you talking about religion of the people you are not appreciative of and then talk about politics? What is it, religion or politics?


Religion turns into politics when Islam protesters are holding signs saying "British soldiers burn in hell" and "massacre those who insult Muslim". And its labelled their right, as its their freedom of expression, but if it was the other way round, it would be unnaceptable.


And that IS indeed unacceptable...but it is IN NO WAY the same thing as not wanting your child to attend a specific kind of lesson. I'm pretty sure that nobody in this thread thinks that such vitriol is a good thing, or supports the spitting of such bilious hatred. But I do think that most of the people in this thread NOT demanding an end to Islam are also supportive of the right to personal choice..and that is what this is about. ANY parent should have the right to hold forth about how their child is being educated, for whatever reason, religious or otherwise.

You are conflating two different groups together. Some Muslim parents who don't wish their children to be involved in Western Music (because as already stated, Music is NOT forbidden in Islam.) and who don't like the idea of mixed sex PE lessons (just like many older white Christian conservative types.) They aren't threatening anyone and they certainly aren't attacking anyone. Then there are a bunch of militant fools fighting a war that should have ended 400 years or more ago.

(Incidentally, those placards and shouts actually constitute threatening behaviour and should have been prosecuted as such, but the Police tend to be very hands-off with such a sensitive area unless actual physicality is involved, because it only takes one bad arrest to kick off a riot, a la Los Angeles.)


Trouble is, its a religious thing. Its just another situation, added to endless list of things that we have to do, or they don't have to do, cause of their religion. A woman not being able to wear a cross round her neck, a male terrorist fleeing the country, wearing a burka(not being able to ask him to take it off). School teacher offending a muslim student, for using the word "ham". Schools dropping teaching the Holocaust, cause its offends them. Its neverending. So its not just about the PE lessons.


Should I repost the original article with the word "Catholic" replacing every instance of "Muslim"? Because mixed PE lessons are often verboten in Catholic schools as well. Catholic schools that repeatedly score higher academically than state schools. Will you start hating on Catholics and calling for them to be expelled from the country as well?

Did it ever occur to you that school-children are disruptive no matter what religion they are?
White western students will cry everything short of rape in order to get out of trouble, or get staff IN trouble, and will quote chapter and verse of any relevant rules about "touching" or whatever in order to escape punishment for disruptive behaviour. Muslim kids are just as susceptible to such trouble-causing, and abusing rules to cause issues. Nowhere in Muslim theology is it offensive to speak about Ham, because the very texts themselves refer to it. Someone was just playing silly buggers. There are a lot of Muslims in BirmingHAM that are really offending Allah otherwise. Ask the average Muslim in the street what they think about a kid that does that, and even money says that they will say he's a naughty little s**t who needs a good beating for such blasphemy.

Teaching the Holocaust is actually compulsory..but it is also a very difficult subject to teach, especially when dealing with a faith that includes holocaust denial. Teachers who have dodged the subject are not doing so by some higher compulsion from the state.. they are doing it because they personally feel they will have difficulty teaching it. It is a very difficult subject to teach PERIOD, so its not surprising that some teachers do not feel up to teaching it AND dealing with the inevitable conflict..but I re-iterate, it is in NO WAY official policy to NOT teach about it.

Its true that some areas have got a little complex where it involves religion, but you seem to be confusing individual situations with the belief system as a whole. Here is an example:

For a while, some local councils declared that they could no longer have "Hot Cross Buns" at Easter in schools, because it might offend Muslim, Hindu or Jewish children. It transpired that these Councils had taken such action entirely without consulting any of the aforementioned communities (Muslim, Hindu or Jewish, remember?) Turns out none of them had even noticed, much less cared about Hot Cross Buns in the slightest. And that these actions were not taken unilaterally to appease Islam, but to prevent a slight against three completely different religions united by NOT BEING CHRISTIANS.

So, exactly how many of these insidious demands that risk turning our whole nation into a new Iran (which also doesn't consider the Burkha compulsory by the way.) were actually made by actual honest-to-Allah Muslims, and how many are just local authorities over-reacting like they always do? How many of these attempts to destroy our culture and overthrow Christianity are actually just bratty kids rebelling using the best weapons available to them? Quite a few by the look of it.

))-<


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murphycop
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09 Feb 2011, 1:51 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Its not about forcing them, its about them forcing us to change things for us. If they don't like the way things are, they have the "freedom of choice" to go somewhere else.


And again, these people are not forcing anyone to do anything. They simply do not want their children to attend certain lessons. Lessons that are COMPULSORY. Who exactly is forcing whom?
Why exactly are children FORCED to study music or PE? Especially music.


I don't know, why are children FORCED to study English, maybe the Muslims kids shouldn't have to do that? Maybe everyone should choose what they want to study, and when they want to go to school.

I know its a big difference between this and the fact Muslims want our culture to suit them, but thanks to certain people, its happening. I wonder what tourists think when they arrive in London, they must wonder if they're in the right country.


English is a communication tool. We learn it so that we can communicate more effectively with one another. That is the perfectly good reason why it is compulsory. PE (in theory) builds physical fitness and encourages team-work. THAT is fairly understandable as a compulsory lesson, because a reasonable standard of fitness helps us to stay alive and not be grotesque lardies....but then these people didn't say they wouldn't let their kids do PE..they just aren't comfortable with MIXED PE lessons. After a certain level, our PE lessons stopped being mixed a great deal anyway and we never had "mixed" changing facilities, not since little school, so I can't see how it is that big of a jump. IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL so get off your right-wing hobby horse.

Knock it off with the reductio absurdum. Music lessons being optional is NOT the same as letting kids choose when they want to go to school.


So why did an English guy get rejected from a job, because he couldn't speak Polish? Mixed lessons, whats wrong with that, what happened to equality? I guess people just play the equality card when it suits. Well get off your hypocrisy horse, mixed changing facilities and mixed PE lessons, are two complete different things. All this left wing hypocrisy and double standards, then making out right wing always means bad, reminds me of a quote.

"Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves."


There are as many arguments AGAINST mixed lessons as there are FOR them, which is one of the reasons why many schools had single-sex lessons for years, and why many people still feel they are more suitable in education. Some private schools still have single-sex lessons. But this isn't a debate about which one of those is right. And mixed or unmixed lessons are not about "equality" either. Who is supposed to be "playing the equality card" here exactly? You demand that some students be forced into taking certain lessons because everyone should be treated the same, and now seem to think that I am arguing AGAINST mixed lessons based on equality when I mentioned no such thing. Sort yourself out eh?

I don't think you actually understand how to use the term "hypocrisy" correctly. Possibly you are actually meaning "contradictory." You still wouldn't be right, but it would be a more correct term. I did refer to BOTH mixed changing and mixed lessons in the same example. I am aware of the difference and similarity between the two. Try reading the whole sentence before posting.

Also, try pulling your head out of the stereotyping bucket. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't de facto make them a left-wing liberal or any such thing. But then I suppose your whole position is predicated on ill-informed stereotyping, so I shouldn't be too surprised when you apply the same ignorance to me and the other people in this thread who actually like to think about why people do what they do.

Oh, and that guy who didn;t get the job because he couldn't speak Polish.. wasn't that the job working with LOADS of Poles who all speak Polish? Was it a Pole doing the hiring? No, I believe it was not. Hey, I once went for a job as a Fork-lift driver.. I didn't get it because I can't drive a Fork-Lift. Which minority should I blame for that? I'm addressing this first bit last because it has NOTHING to do with the thread at all. What are you trying to say? That Polish should be compulsory? That english SHOULDN'T be compulsory because it clearly didn't help that one guy get a job working with foreign people? High english grades won't get you ANY job where you have to deal with large numbers of foreign-language speakers. Those jobs require good grades in the relevant language.


I've just highlited some of your hypocrisy for you. Don't you use stereotypes like "daily mail readers", and "right wing hobby horse"? Game, set and match.

Now I know I use some stereotypes, but maybe some stereotypes are actually true. I've seen you talk about equality before, when you like to play the card. Again, yet more hypocrisy from you- saying I should read the whole sentence. Maybe you should read the right thread, I didn't say they should be forced, I said they could go somewhere else if they for example they found mixed PE lessons offensive or the teacher using the word "pig". Its pretty simple really.

So we have a huge project going on, in our country, and you have to speak Polish to get the job? :? Can you imagine that happening in many other countries? Again, what does driving a forklift have to do with a foreign language :? I'm saying, the Polish people shouldn't be able to get the job, unless they can speak ENGLISH. And don't drivel on about this, cause an English guy not getting a job cause he can't speak Polish, in England is even worse. I'll say one thing they can't teach in schools is common sense :roll:


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09 Feb 2011, 1:59 pm

Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


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09 Feb 2011, 2:12 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Its not about forcing them, its about them forcing us to change things for us. If they don't like the way things are, they have the "freedom of choice" to go somewhere else.


And again, these people are not forcing anyone to do anything. They simply do not want their children to attend certain lessons. Lessons that are COMPULSORY. Who exactly is forcing whom?
Why exactly are children FORCED to study music or PE? Especially music.


I don't know, why are children FORCED to study English, maybe the Muslims kids shouldn't have to do that? Maybe everyone should choose what they want to study, and when they want to go to school.

I know its a big difference between this and the fact Muslims want our culture to suit them, but thanks to certain people, its happening. I wonder what tourists think when they arrive in London, they must wonder if they're in the right country.


English is a communication tool. We learn it so that we can communicate more effectively with one another. That is the perfectly good reason why it is compulsory. PE (in theory) builds physical fitness and encourages team-work. THAT is fairly understandable as a compulsory lesson, because a reasonable standard of fitness helps us to stay alive and not be grotesque lardies....but then these people didn't say they wouldn't let their kids do PE..they just aren't comfortable with MIXED PE lessons. After a certain level, our PE lessons stopped being mixed a great deal anyway and we never had "mixed" changing facilities, not since little school, so I can't see how it is that big of a jump. IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL so get off your right-wing hobby horse.

Knock it off with the reductio absurdum. Music lessons being optional is NOT the same as letting kids choose when they want to go to school.


So why did an English guy get rejected from a job, because he couldn't speak Polish? Mixed lessons, whats wrong with that, what happened to equality? I guess people just play the equality card when it suits. Well get off your hypocrisy horse, mixed changing facilities and mixed PE lessons, are two complete different things. All this left wing hypocrisy and double standards, then making out right wing always means bad, reminds me of a quote.

"Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves."


There are as many arguments AGAINST mixed lessons as there are FOR them, which is one of the reasons why many schools had single-sex lessons for years, and why many people still feel they are more suitable in education. Some private schools still have single-sex lessons. But this isn't a debate about which one of those is right. And mixed or unmixed lessons are not about "equality" either. Who is supposed to be "playing the equality card" here exactly? You demand that some students be forced into taking certain lessons because everyone should be treated the same, and now seem to think that I am arguing AGAINST mixed lessons based on equality when I mentioned no such thing. Sort yourself out eh?

I don't think you actually understand how to use the term "hypocrisy" correctly. Possibly you are actually meaning "contradictory." You still wouldn't be right, but it would be a more correct term. I did refer to BOTH mixed changing and mixed lessons in the same example. I am aware of the difference and similarity between the two. Try reading the whole sentence before posting.

Also, try pulling your head out of the stereotyping bucket. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't de facto make them a left-wing liberal or any such thing. But then I suppose your whole position is predicated on ill-informed stereotyping, so I shouldn't be too surprised when you apply the same ignorance to me and the other people in this thread who actually like to think about why people do what they do.

Oh, and that guy who didn;t get the job because he couldn't speak Polish.. wasn't that the job working with LOADS of Poles who all speak Polish? Was it a Pole doing the hiring? No, I believe it was not. Hey, I once went for a job as a Fork-lift driver.. I didn't get it because I can't drive a Fork-Lift. Which minority should I blame for that? I'm addressing this first bit last because it has NOTHING to do with the thread at all. What are you trying to say? That Polish should be compulsory? That english SHOULDN'T be compulsory because it clearly didn't help that one guy get a job working with foreign people? High english grades won't get you ANY job where you have to deal with large numbers of foreign-language speakers. Those jobs require good grades in the relevant language.


I've just highlited some of your hypocrisy for you. Don't you use stereotypes like "daily mail readers", and "right wing hobby horse"? Game, set and match.

Now I know I use some stereotypes, but maybe some stereotypes are actually true. I've seen you talk about equality before, when you like to play the card. Again, yet more hypocrisy from you- saying I should read the whole sentence. Maybe you should read the right thread, I didn't say they should be forced, I said they could go somewhere else if they for example they found mixed PE lessons offensive or the teacher using the word "pig". Its pretty simple really.

So we have a huge project going on, in our country, and you have to speak Polish to get the job? :? Can you imagine that happening in many other countries? Again, what does driving a forklift have to do with a foreign language :? I'm saying, the Polish people shouldn't be able to get the job, unless they can speak ENGLISH. And don't drivel on about this, cause an English guy not getting a job cause he can't speak Polish, in England is even worse. I'll say one thing they can't teach in schools is common sense :roll:


When you make comments lifted verbatim from Daily Mail articles then its not stereotyping. Its noting that if you don't read the Mail then you have an eerie ability to regurgitate their unresearched lies.

Still not sure what "equality" in other threads has to do with this thread. The "equality" issue is you demanding that Muslims MUST FIT IN OR LEAVE whilst apparently ignoring everyone else who ever argued with a school.

"Pig" or "Ham?" Do you actually KNOW which word was used? Can you find a link (NOT a MAIL one) confirming or even broadly detailing the case?

Given the choice between hard-working Poles who lack language skills who have actively applied for a position, and the shower of inbred crap that lurks outside the Job-centre on signing day and has to be FORCED to apply to the same job, I know who I would hire. I would hire the ones who can actually do the job. You want to take issue with someone, take it up with the education system that made half a generation of English children sub-literate morons, not the foreign people who aren't. An education system ruined by WHITE PEOPLE who are NATIVES.

You don't half enjoy creating these compound bad guys. Some Muslims who don't like their kids in mixed PE lessons are suddenly linked to militant British Muslims and Polish labourers who have usable skills, and you carry on doing it even after its pointed out that all that "Might offend them" stuff concerns at least three diometrically opposed religions, and usually is designed to prevent offence to ANY religious group WITHOUT CONSULTATION OF THOSE GROUPS.

You ARE a stereotype, because you are using exactly the same inaccurate, dishonest and badly-thought-out arguments as any standard "Mail Reader" or "BNP voter." whilst miserably failing to actually address any of the points raised against you. If the shoe fits...


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09 Feb 2011, 2:18 pm

murphycop wrote:
Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


Everything I posted is completely relevant to the subject in hand. Unlike your attempts to make a local school matter into part of a uniliateral destruction of "your" Culture, or waffling about Poles and Equality in a desperate attempt to try and make it look like you have a point. Clearly you do about as much research into your position and beliefs as the Mail.

If White Christian Culture involves such staggering ignorance as you display, then I don't particularly want it to be the dominant one. The kind of "culture" that the BNP and EDL hold up as being the "right one" is nothing but a shallow imitation of a much more unified right-wing "paradise" that also sucked.


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09 Feb 2011, 7:04 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Its not about forcing them, its about them forcing us to change things for us. If they don't like the way things are, they have the "freedom of choice" to go somewhere else.


And again, these people are not forcing anyone to do anything. They simply do not want their children to attend certain lessons. Lessons that are COMPULSORY. Who exactly is forcing whom?
Why exactly are children FORCED to study music or PE? Especially music.


I don't know, why are children FORCED to study English, maybe the Muslims kids shouldn't have to do that? Maybe everyone should choose what they want to study, and when they want to go to school.

I know its a big difference between this and the fact Muslims want our culture to suit them, but thanks to certain people, its happening. I wonder what tourists think when they arrive in London, they must wonder if they're in the right country.


English is a communication tool. We learn it so that we can communicate more effectively with one another. That is the perfectly good reason why it is compulsory. PE (in theory) builds physical fitness and encourages team-work. THAT is fairly understandable as a compulsory lesson, because a reasonable standard of fitness helps us to stay alive and not be grotesque lardies....but then these people didn't say they wouldn't let their kids do PE..they just aren't comfortable with MIXED PE lessons. After a certain level, our PE lessons stopped being mixed a great deal anyway and we never had "mixed" changing facilities, not since little school, so I can't see how it is that big of a jump. IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL so get off your right-wing hobby horse.

Knock it off with the reductio absurdum. Music lessons being optional is NOT the same as letting kids choose when they want to go to school.


So why did an English guy get rejected from a job, because he couldn't speak Polish? Mixed lessons, whats wrong with that, what happened to equality? I guess people just play the equality card when it suits. Well get off your hypocrisy horse, mixed changing facilities and mixed PE lessons, are two complete different things. All this left wing hypocrisy and double standards, then making out right wing always means bad, reminds me of a quote.

"Many of us believe that wrongs aren't wrong if it's done by nice people like ourselves."


There are as many arguments AGAINST mixed lessons as there are FOR them, which is one of the reasons why many schools had single-sex lessons for years, and why many people still feel they are more suitable in education. Some private schools still have single-sex lessons. But this isn't a debate about which one of those is right. And mixed or unmixed lessons are not about "equality" either. Who is supposed to be "playing the equality card" here exactly? You demand that some students be forced into taking certain lessons because everyone should be treated the same, and now seem to think that I am arguing AGAINST mixed lessons based on equality when I mentioned no such thing. Sort yourself out eh?

I don't think you actually understand how to use the term "hypocrisy" correctly. Possibly you are actually meaning "contradictory." You still wouldn't be right, but it would be a more correct term. I did refer to BOTH mixed changing and mixed lessons in the same example. I am aware of the difference and similarity between the two. Try reading the whole sentence before posting.

Also, try pulling your head out of the stereotyping bucket. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't de facto make them a left-wing liberal or any such thing. But then I suppose your whole position is predicated on ill-informed stereotyping, so I shouldn't be too surprised when you apply the same ignorance to me and the other people in this thread who actually like to think about why people do what they do.

Oh, and that guy who didn;t get the job because he couldn't speak Polish.. wasn't that the job working with LOADS of Poles who all speak Polish? Was it a Pole doing the hiring? No, I believe it was not. Hey, I once went for a job as a Fork-lift driver.. I didn't get it because I can't drive a Fork-Lift. Which minority should I blame for that? I'm addressing this first bit last because it has NOTHING to do with the thread at all. What are you trying to say? That Polish should be compulsory? That english SHOULDN'T be compulsory because it clearly didn't help that one guy get a job working with foreign people? High english grades won't get you ANY job where you have to deal with large numbers of foreign-language speakers. Those jobs require good grades in the relevant language.


I've just highlited some of your hypocrisy for you. Don't you use stereotypes like "daily mail readers", and "right wing hobby horse"? Game, set and match.

Now I know I use some stereotypes, but maybe some stereotypes are actually true. I've seen you talk about equality before, when you like to play the card. Again, yet more hypocrisy from you- saying I should read the whole sentence. Maybe you should read the right thread, I didn't say they should be forced, I said they could go somewhere else if they for example they found mixed PE lessons offensive or the teacher using the word "pig". Its pretty simple really.

So we have a huge project going on, in our country, and you have to speak Polish to get the job? :? Can you imagine that happening in many other countries? Again, what does driving a forklift have to do with a foreign language :? I'm saying, the Polish people shouldn't be able to get the job, unless they can speak ENGLISH. And don't drivel on about this, cause an English guy not getting a job cause he can't speak Polish, in England is even worse. I'll say one thing they can't teach in schools is common sense :roll:


When you make comments lifted verbatim from Daily Mail articles then its not stereotyping. Its noting that if you don't read the Mail then you have an eerie ability to regurgitate their unresearched lies.

Still not sure what "equality" in other threads has to do with this thread. The "equality" issue is you demanding that Muslims MUST FIT IN OR LEAVE whilst apparently ignoring everyone else who ever argued with a school.

"Pig" or "Ham?" Do you actually KNOW which word was used? Can you find a link (NOT a MAIL one) confirming or even broadly detailing the case?

Given the choice between hard-working Poles who lack language skills who have actively applied for a position, and the shower of inbred crap that lurks outside the Job-centre on signing day and has to be FORCED to apply to the same job, I know who I would hire. I would hire the ones who can actually do the job. You want to take issue with someone, take it up with the education system that made half a generation of English children sub-literate morons, not the foreign people who aren't. An education system ruined by WHITE PEOPLE who are NATIVES.

You don't half enjoy creating these compound bad guys. Some Muslims who don't like their kids in mixed PE lessons are suddenly linked to militant British Muslims and Polish labourers who have usable skills, and you carry on doing it even after its pointed out that all that "Might offend them" stuff concerns at least three diometrically opposed religions, and usually is designed to prevent offence to ANY religious group WITHOUT CONSULTATION OF THOSE GROUPS.

You ARE a stereotype, because you are using exactly the same inaccurate, dishonest and badly-thought-out arguments as any standard "Mail Reader" or "BNP voter." whilst miserably failing to actually address any of the points raised against you. If the shoe fits...


Can't you write anything without being a complete hypocrite? Your views could come straight from the Daily Mirror or Guardian.

AGAIN. Its not just about the PE lessons.

Just search for a teacher offending a muslim student by talking about ham, if you're that worried, its there for you to look at.

Do you know why the "shower of inbred crap" exists? Its thanks to them being able to get by in life by not working, and the cycle continues. I wonder if it has anything to do with out multicultural society too.

Lol! You're getting embarrassing now. You're just a clone of a Mirror reader or Guardian with your views, and whoever you vote for. In your view, that means you ARE a stereotype. Or can't left wing people be classed as stereotypes? It doesn't matter anyway who you vote for, all politicians are the same. They are straight out of Eton, like our current goverment. You've not addressed any points, and have turned the topic into a mess. All radical left wingers can say is "wah mail reader", "BNP voter", "facist/racist", "dinosaur". Its like they malfunction when they are questioned. If you can't see how much of a hypocrite you are, then I can't help you.


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09 Feb 2011, 7:14 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


Everything I posted is completely relevant to the subject in hand. Unlike your attempts to make a local school matter into part of a uniliateral destruction of "your" Culture, or waffling about Poles and Equality in a desperate attempt to try and make it look like you have a point. Clearly you do about as much research into your position and beliefs as the Mail.

If White Christian Culture involves such staggering ignorance as you display, then I don't particularly want it to be the dominant one. The kind of "culture" that the BNP and EDL hold up as being the "right one" is nothing but a shallow imitation of a much more unified right-wing "paradise" that also sucked.


Lol. I do have a point, and I get to it. I don't fly off topic with an essay of irrelevance every time I post. I've stated my point already. Life's too short to wait for yours.

Our country is in a bigger mess than it has ever been, I wonder if 13 long years of Labour had much to do with this. Its quite unbelieveable for a left wing person not to have some shame after the mess your party caused. There you go again with your cloned views "BNP, EDL, Mail". Some of my views are very right wing, and some are left wing. I have obviously obtained mine from common sense and experience. Freedom of expression and speech should apply to everyone. Criminals shouldn't have more rights than victims. Its very simple, and its something you can't get to grips with.


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09 Feb 2011, 9:02 pm

Note to all: I have moved this thread to PPR because of how it has evolved, and it will now either return to civility and remain there or be locked.


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09 Feb 2011, 9:48 pm

I think this ought to serve as a precedent for people of any group who want to opt out of music or phys ed. They specifically stated they wanted to do an equivalent writing course. If they have intent to do something creative, why does it have to be music? I hated elementary school music. Surprisingly now I am a musician. I would have honestly preferred writing to sitting around playing recorder and getting B****ed at for not caring. Its kind of unfortunate that it had to be a few Muslims in Canada bringing this issue up because its bound to make the issue seem racially charged. And as for school phys ed I didn't care much for that either. There should be another option. I definitely don't see this as equivalent to Muslims wanting to practice Sharia in Canada. That controversy is not as widespread as some would like it to seem. I have a feeling only a few hundred Muslims in the entire country actually want this and there are probably half of a million Muslims here by now, they are not a threat to our country...


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10 Feb 2011, 12:32 am

This problem is inherent in the one-size-fits-all concept of public government controlled schooling. The cure is obvious; private schools. That way parents can find schools that fit in with their religious or philosophical peculiarities.

Privatize schooling in the entirety.

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10 Feb 2011, 1:35 am

one of the main points of the establishment of public schools was to give all of the kids a common background and mutual understanding.