Muslim families in Winnipeg want children excused from

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Vigilans
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11 Feb 2011, 3:31 pm

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I went to a private school for some years as well, and they taught me the eart was only 7000 years old and every text book had references to Bible verses. You couldn't go a few pages without seeing some how quadratic equations related to Jesus. I'm over-exagerating, but not by much. The idea that private education is always better than public is just an assumption.[

That sucks man I'm really glad you made it out of there with a head on your shoulders lol. That is definitely an issue with some private schools, there has to be public oversight in what is being taught otherwise that kind of defecation on learning can occur


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11 Feb 2011, 3:53 pm

murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.



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11 Feb 2011, 3:57 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


Everything I posted is completely relevant to the subject in hand. Unlike your attempts to make a local school matter into part of a uniliateral destruction of "your" Culture, or waffling about Poles and Equality in a desperate attempt to try and make it look like you have a point. Clearly you do about as much research into your position and beliefs as the Mail.

If White Christian Culture involves such staggering ignorance as you display, then I don't particularly want it to be the dominant one. The kind of "culture" that the BNP and EDL hold up as being the "right one" is nothing but a shallow imitation of a much more unified right-wing "paradise" that also sucked.


Lol. I do have a point, and I get to it. I don't fly off topic with an essay of irrelevance every time I post. I've stated my point already. Life's too short to wait for yours.

Our country is in a bigger mess than it has ever been, I wonder if 13 long years of Labour had much to do with this. Its quite unbelieveable for a left wing person not to have some shame after the mess your party caused. There you go again with your cloned views "BNP, EDL, Mail". Some of my views are very right wing, and some are left wing. I have obviously obtained mine from common sense and experience. Freedom of expression and speech should apply to everyone. Criminals shouldn't have more rights than victims. Its very simple, and its something you can't get to grips with.


You want irrelevant? Why have you dragged a discussion about Canadian Muslims and School into such areas as British Criminal Justice and Freedom of Expression and Speech?

Bit rich give you apparently wish to deny parents the right to determine what their children are taught. Are we then to believe that if these were any other parents and the subjects they disagreed with were say, a lesson in holocaust denial, that you expect them to just sit quietly and take it? A parent has a right to disagree with what a school is teaching their child.

And still you think I'm left wing based on your own prejudices. Ridiculous.


I think you'll find you were the one who immediately changed the subject.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt151175.html

I hope you have a bit of humility and admit this.


I see you talking about how multiculturalism means we should support stoning women to death, and the EDL march in London, "them" forcing "us" to change, tourists in London (?) or this gem:

Quote:
I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


Clearly that ^ is totally relevant to the subject .... :roll:

So please, do explain where I changed the subject, because all I can find is you posting about British politics and accusing people of being left-wing, and toss like that. Where I have digressed, it is in response to YOUR random sidebars (where they make sense. Seriously, what is the tourist comment supposed to mean?)

I also invite other readers to help me here, because I genuinely cannot figure out what Murphycop is talking about.


:roll: Just look at your first post, and ranting about other religions. My first post was completely relevant to the topic, yours wasn't.

Obviously the post of mine you quoted was when the topic had gone off the rails, but like I said, you were the one to start that off.

What tourist comment, did you forget to link it? What I said was relevant, cause i'm pointing out thats its ok for Muslims to make such demands, but not certain others.


@bold : My first post was this:

Quote:
There were Jehovahs Witness kids at our school who were excused School Assembly because there would be hymns sung. Nobody got bent out of shape about that. Well, some of us kids did, but only because we wanted out of the dullness as well. Then we found out they don't get Christmas and forgave them.

Honestly, why does anyone give a crap whether Muslim kids do PE or Music? So they'll grow up slightly less athletic, and not be able to play the oboe badly. Why does that matter at all? Are they calling for a total ban on music in Winterpeg? No. So where is the problem?


I cited an example from my own experience of a religious group given an exception from a compulsory school activity where no harm was caused and no offense taken, no society collapsed and no culture was destroyed. If anything a greater understanding between groups was formed. Completely relevant to the case in hand. Not "ranting about other religions" in any way at all. Responding to your "Conform or get out" position.

My first post is also relevant to your last as an example of a religion (Jehovah's Witnesses) that asked for an exception and received it from another religion (Church of England.) on the decision of a third religion (our headmaster was a Quaker). So yes, plenty of other religions ask for exceptions or make demands and get them. I got married in a Catholic Church even though my grandfather was a Baptist Minister and my mother raised a Methodist, because we asked the Bishopric nicely if that would be OK. And BEHOLD, we got a nice letter back saying "Yes, that would be fine, Church law allowed it. Have a dispensation. "

Isn't is AMAZING how people can get on when they aren't demanding CONFORM OR LEAVE?


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11 Feb 2011, 4:01 pm

murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


Given that English isn't a religious lesson, its a LANGUAGE, your suggestion is pointless. What exactly about ENGLISH as a language would a white person find offensive, as an atheist?

IN case you didn't READ the original problem, the issue these parents have is with THE LESSON, not with THE TEACHER.

So, try again.


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11 Feb 2011, 4:21 pm

My, oh my Winterpeg topic

Macbeth is right on. And Multiculturalism in Canada is not the same as the European variety. Our neighbourhoods are not ghettoes and were not set up that way, thankfully, and the Canadian way is workable, a model for other countires.

When I was a child there were other religious minorities in Canada that demanded some concessions in the public education system, including Jews, Jehovah Witnesses, and Menonnites. there was no public outcry due to sheer numbers. Now that some Muslim families ask for differences should come as no surprise, and what they are asking is hardly unreasonable.

If some children who have special needs (including AS) need accommodations/concessions the system in place has the means to address differences. 8)


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11 Feb 2011, 6:30 pm

Vigilans wrote:
I don't have a problem with Muslims living in Canada. Many of the Muslims I have met in Montreal are much more courteous, polite & educated then the local yokels around here. I suppose being part of an also hated minority (Anglos) here makes me feel something in common with them. Perhaps, depending on the outcome of the current domino of revolutions taking place in the Middle East, democracy may come to their homelands and they won't feel the need to leave en mass. In any case, I don't agree that they should bring Sharia with them. As for the hijab, we don't have a problem with letting morbidly obese women walk around with exposed g-strings..


I don't have a problem with them living here. Its when them or anyone starts acting like complete idiots. Trouble is, their religion is such a strong and strict one.


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11 Feb 2011, 6:33 pm

LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.


I mean the teacher. Exemptions based on religion.


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Jacoby
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11 Feb 2011, 6:34 pm

you should be able to opt-out of those classes regardless of religion.



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11 Feb 2011, 6:37 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


Everything I posted is completely relevant to the subject in hand. Unlike your attempts to make a local school matter into part of a uniliateral destruction of "your" Culture, or waffling about Poles and Equality in a desperate attempt to try and make it look like you have a point. Clearly you do about as much research into your position and beliefs as the Mail.

If White Christian Culture involves such staggering ignorance as you display, then I don't particularly want it to be the dominant one. The kind of "culture" that the BNP and EDL hold up as being the "right one" is nothing but a shallow imitation of a much more unified right-wing "paradise" that also sucked.


Lol. I do have a point, and I get to it. I don't fly off topic with an essay of irrelevance every time I post. I've stated my point already. Life's too short to wait for yours.

Our country is in a bigger mess than it has ever been, I wonder if 13 long years of Labour had much to do with this. Its quite unbelieveable for a left wing person not to have some shame after the mess your party caused. There you go again with your cloned views "BNP, EDL, Mail". Some of my views are very right wing, and some are left wing. I have obviously obtained mine from common sense and experience. Freedom of expression and speech should apply to everyone. Criminals shouldn't have more rights than victims. Its very simple, and its something you can't get to grips with.


You want irrelevant? Why have you dragged a discussion about Canadian Muslims and School into such areas as British Criminal Justice and Freedom of Expression and Speech?

Bit rich give you apparently wish to deny parents the right to determine what their children are taught. Are we then to believe that if these were any other parents and the subjects they disagreed with were say, a lesson in holocaust denial, that you expect them to just sit quietly and take it? A parent has a right to disagree with what a school is teaching their child.

And still you think I'm left wing based on your own prejudices. Ridiculous.


I think you'll find you were the one who immediately changed the subject.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt151175.html

I hope you have a bit of humility and admit this.


I see you talking about how multiculturalism means we should support stoning women to death, and the EDL march in London, "them" forcing "us" to change, tourists in London (?) or this gem:

Quote:
I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


Clearly that ^ is totally relevant to the subject .... :roll:

So please, do explain where I changed the subject, because all I can find is you posting about British politics and accusing people of being left-wing, and toss like that. Where I have digressed, it is in response to YOUR random sidebars (where they make sense. Seriously, what is the tourist comment supposed to mean?)

I also invite other readers to help me here, because I genuinely cannot figure out what Murphycop is talking about.


:roll: Just look at your first post, and ranting about other religions. My first post was completely relevant to the topic, yours wasn't.

Obviously the post of mine you quoted was when the topic had gone off the rails, but like I said, you were the one to start that off.

What tourist comment, did you forget to link it? What I said was relevant, cause i'm pointing out thats its ok for Muslims to make such demands, but not certain others.


@bold : My first post was this:

Quote:
There were Jehovahs Witness kids at our school who were excused School Assembly because there would be hymns sung. Nobody got bent out of shape about that. Well, some of us kids did, but only because we wanted out of the dullness as well. Then we found out they don't get Christmas and forgave them.

Honestly, why does anyone give a crap whether Muslim kids do PE or Music? So they'll grow up slightly less athletic, and not be able to play the oboe badly. Why does that matter at all? Are they calling for a total ban on music in Winterpeg? No. So where is the problem?


I cited an example from my own experience of a religious group given an exception from a compulsory school activity where no harm was caused and no offense taken, no society collapsed and no culture was destroyed. If anything a greater understanding between groups was formed. Completely relevant to the case in hand. Not "ranting about other religions" in any way at all. Responding to your "Conform or get out" position.

My first post is also relevant to your last as an example of a religion (Jehovah's Witnesses) that asked for an exception and received it from another religion (Church of England.) on the decision of a third religion (our headmaster was a Quaker). So yes, plenty of other religions ask for exceptions or make demands and get them. I got married in a Catholic Church even though my grandfather was a Baptist Minister and my mother raised a Methodist, because we asked the Bishopric nicely if that would be OK. And BEHOLD, we got a nice letter back saying "Yes, that would be fine, Church law allowed it. Have a dispensation. "

Isn't is AMAZING how people can get on when they aren't demanding CONFORM OR LEAVE?


Yes, The Church of England, your Grandfather and your wedding day couldn't be more relevant to this thread. :lmao:


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Macbeth
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11 Feb 2011, 7:12 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Sorry, I can't keep reading through your endless irrelevant paragraphs, and correcting you.

Actually, I probably didn't make it clear enough when I said "its a religious thing". I was meaning any religion, people shouldn't have to tip toe around anyone, cause of religion. This is getting like the other thread, we're both writing 3 times as much as we should have to, due to lack of understanding and going off track.


Everything I posted is completely relevant to the subject in hand. Unlike your attempts to make a local school matter into part of a uniliateral destruction of "your" Culture, or waffling about Poles and Equality in a desperate attempt to try and make it look like you have a point. Clearly you do about as much research into your position and beliefs as the Mail.

If White Christian Culture involves such staggering ignorance as you display, then I don't particularly want it to be the dominant one. The kind of "culture" that the BNP and EDL hold up as being the "right one" is nothing but a shallow imitation of a much more unified right-wing "paradise" that also sucked.


Lol. I do have a point, and I get to it. I don't fly off topic with an essay of irrelevance every time I post. I've stated my point already. Life's too short to wait for yours.

Our country is in a bigger mess than it has ever been, I wonder if 13 long years of Labour had much to do with this. Its quite unbelieveable for a left wing person not to have some shame after the mess your party caused. There you go again with your cloned views "BNP, EDL, Mail". Some of my views are very right wing, and some are left wing. I have obviously obtained mine from common sense and experience. Freedom of expression and speech should apply to everyone. Criminals shouldn't have more rights than victims. Its very simple, and its something you can't get to grips with.


You want irrelevant? Why have you dragged a discussion about Canadian Muslims and School into such areas as British Criminal Justice and Freedom of Expression and Speech?

Bit rich give you apparently wish to deny parents the right to determine what their children are taught. Are we then to believe that if these were any other parents and the subjects they disagreed with were say, a lesson in holocaust denial, that you expect them to just sit quietly and take it? A parent has a right to disagree with what a school is teaching their child.

And still you think I'm left wing based on your own prejudices. Ridiculous.


I think you'll find you were the one who immediately changed the subject.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt151175.html

I hope you have a bit of humility and admit this.


I see you talking about how multiculturalism means we should support stoning women to death, and the EDL march in London, "them" forcing "us" to change, tourists in London (?) or this gem:

Quote:
I know radical right wingers look ridiculously stupid, but (name removed (ljo)) radical left wingers, look just as stupid, but they're too hypocritical to see it. When we live in a country where you can only have freedom of expression and speech if you're a "minority", its gets very frustrating. The left wing goverment had their 13 years, it was a complete disaster, they need to swallow their pride.


Clearly that ^ is totally relevant to the subject .... :roll:

So please, do explain where I changed the subject, because all I can find is you posting about British politics and accusing people of being left-wing, and toss like that. Where I have digressed, it is in response to YOUR random sidebars (where they make sense. Seriously, what is the tourist comment supposed to mean?)

I also invite other readers to help me here, because I genuinely cannot figure out what Murphycop is talking about.


:roll: Just look at your first post, and ranting about other religions. My first post was completely relevant to the topic, yours wasn't.

Obviously the post of mine you quoted was when the topic had gone off the rails, but like I said, you were the one to start that off.

What tourist comment, did you forget to link it? What I said was relevant, cause i'm pointing out thats its ok for Muslims to make such demands, but not certain others.


@bold : My first post was this:

Quote:
There were Jehovahs Witness kids at our school who were excused School Assembly because there would be hymns sung. Nobody got bent out of shape about that. Well, some of us kids did, but only because we wanted out of the dullness as well. Then we found out they don't get Christmas and forgave them.

Honestly, why does anyone give a crap whether Muslim kids do PE or Music? So they'll grow up slightly less athletic, and not be able to play the oboe badly. Why does that matter at all? Are they calling for a total ban on music in Winterpeg? No. So where is the problem?


I cited an example from my own experience of a religious group given an exception from a compulsory school activity where no harm was caused and no offense taken, no society collapsed and no culture was destroyed. If anything a greater understanding between groups was formed. Completely relevant to the case in hand. Not "ranting about other religions" in any way at all. Responding to your "Conform or get out" position.

My first post is also relevant to your last as an example of a religion (Jehovah's Witnesses) that asked for an exception and received it from another religion (Church of England.) on the decision of a third religion (our headmaster was a Quaker). So yes, plenty of other religions ask for exceptions or make demands and get them. I got married in a Catholic Church even though my grandfather was a Baptist Minister and my mother raised a Methodist, because we asked the Bishopric nicely if that would be OK. And BEHOLD, we got a nice letter back saying "Yes, that would be fine, Church law allowed it. Have a dispensation. "

Isn't is AMAZING how people can get on when they aren't demanding CONFORM OR LEAVE?


Yes, The Church of England, your Grandfather and your wedding day couldn't be more relevant to this thread. :lmao:


What exactly is it that you fail to understand? It gets tiring spelling these things out over and again. I just thank God/Al;ah/Whatever that other people have a greater comprehension of written English than you demonstrate.

Its perfectly clear what the relevance is, and its a damn sight more relevant than your digression that Labour screwed this country up.

But once more, in the most simple version....Other religious groups ask for, and receive concessions from educational (and secular bodies on the basis of their beliefs and NOBODY GIVES A DAMN.


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LKL
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12 Feb 2011, 2:01 am

murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.


I mean the teacher. Exemptions based on religion.

Based on the religion of the teacher, as opposed to the content of the class, no. But that's not what we're talking about here. Why did you specify that the student was white?



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12 Feb 2011, 1:46 pm

LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.


I mean the teacher. Exemptions based on religion.

Based on the religion of the teacher, as opposed to the content of the class, no. But that's not what we're talking about here. Why did you specify that the student was white?


Because he thinks that only coloured folks can be Muslims? Might have been a better example if he had picked a Sikh student. After all, they certainly aren't fond of Muslims on a whole different level.


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12 Feb 2011, 2:04 pm

LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.


I mean the teacher. Exemptions based on religion.

Based on the religion of the teacher, as opposed to the content of the class, no. But that's not what we're talking about here. Why did you specify that the student was white?


Cause a white atheist isn't gonna have the advantage of being an ethnic minority or a religion on their side, in a case like that. And for people with lack of understanding, I didn't say the Muslim teacher couldn't be white. :roll:


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12 Feb 2011, 2:57 pm

^Ok, I can see where that would make sense from your point of view. Again, though, the student would have no standing whatsoever unless the teacher was actually preaching in class.



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12 Feb 2011, 6:57 pm

murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
LKL wrote:
murphycop wrote:
So if a white atheist person said they didn't want to be taught English lessons by a Muslim, cause they found it offensive, would they be able to stop him teaching, or would they be "forced" out of the school?


They would only have a case if the Muslim (or Christian, or Hindu, or whatever) was preaching his or her religion to the class along with the English. The teacher's and student's race are irrelevant to the scenario.


Well thats different cause the school in question wasn't preaching their religion, it was just the Muslims complaining. I didn't say race did I, I said religion.

You specified a white student for some reason; also, there are both quantitative and qualitative differences in the effect on students if a teacher is preaching their religion and if other students are preaching their religion. In the case you cited, it was about the exercise of student's religion - and it wasn't even preaching. It was asking for exemptions.


I mean the teacher. Exemptions based on religion.

Based on the religion of the teacher, as opposed to the content of the class, no. But that's not what we're talking about here. Why did you specify that the student was white?


Cause a white atheist isn't gonna have the advantage of being an ethnic minority or a religion on their side, in a case like that. And for people with lack of understanding, I didn't say the Muslim teacher couldn't be white. :roll:


You brought race in to it when race wasn't an issue. Religion was. So how about you try re-writing your hypothesis so it actually fits the original issue, concerning religion.

Can't send White Muslims home though, can you?


_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]