Quote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
ikorack wrote:
LKL wrote:
@Ikorack: It was somewhere in the mess of what I read. It's possible that it was in an article that I chose not to post. Just out of curiosity, do you honestly think that an average wife in the 1950's could have asked her husband for more help with the cooking/dishes/cleaning/child care and gotten, 'sure, honey!,' even if she also worked full time? And if she did get that answer, would he feel comfortable, or even proud, to tell his men-friends that he was helping his wife around the house for more equal labor division?
What does that question have to do with anything? I am not objecting to every affect feminism has had on us, I am objecting to their lack of involvement in men's rights as it pertains to their original egalitarians goals. You still have not come up with a coherent statement against my last argument(The one which uses your sources). Nor with my statements against the lack of lobbying for equal parenting from feminist groups and individuals. The fact that men and women are now expecting an equal division of labor is a positive effect of feminism but it does not justify the stall in(or lack of) lobbying for shared parenting from feminists. I question why you are defending an institution which encourages traditional gender roles.
That's because you are ignoring posts which don't suit your position. As I have already pointed out, look at countries that are further advanced along the feminist path and you will see a more equal division of roles.
Like Sweden, with it's closed rape trials? Feminism just won't work without a male counter group to balance out privileges, which I suppose is my opinion. What other countries would you like me to look at?
As I said, you disregard anything which doesn't support you. The fact is Sweden is the most advanced country with regards to feminism. Another fact is that improved equality for women in Sweden has resulted in more equality for men. A further fact is that because of Swedish feminist progession parenting is split 50:50, before and after divorce. But please, continue to ignore those facts in favour of your own agenda.
How are closed rape trials equal, there have been suggestions(and serious discussion, see
Link, the dissenting opinion of I think two sentences was soundly twisted into support) for gender quotas(How is that equal?), as well as a suggested man tax(Which was deemed radical and soundly tossed out.). And I have asked you for other countries to look at. Now tell me what equality men have achieved aside from paternity leave in Sweden, show me other examples of equality in Sweden and do so from the male perspective, Because so far all you've done is parrot one example.
EDIT: There is a link near the bottom which I suppose is part of this argument.
Also See wrote:
On July 1st last year an amendment was made to the law against discrimination, specifically banning gender discrimination. This has led to a rapid rise in the number of incidents reported by men, who were previously under-represented.
Of 56 cases reported under the new amendment, 45 concerned complaints made by men. Added to a series of complaints under the previous legislation, Jämo is now handling a total of 82 incidents reported by men in 2005, compared to just 23 the year before.
The complaints include different age restrictions for men and women for entry into bars and higher prices for dating services.
13 complaints concern Sweden's social services, labour market policies and unemployment benefits. However, none of them has yet been brought before the courts.
In total, Jämo received 235 reports of discrimination last year under the three laws which the ombudsman is responsible for supervising.
171 of those complaints were made with reference to equality legislation. 65 incidents concerned employment conditions, usually salary. That is a marked increase on the year before when only 36 such matters were reported.
Most cases still centre on women who are dissatisfied with wage differences in their workplace.
The next largest category, with 55 complaints in 2005, deals with companies' recruitment procedures.
Trial periods cut short, dismissals and transfers accounted for 27 complaints, which included cases of women who were not able to return to continue their work due to pregnancy.
Jämo closed 197 cases last year. In 79 of those the conclusion was that there was no discrimination - or no evidence of it.
Four cases were brought before the labour courts. Jämo won three of those and lost a case where a female employee of the army claimed to have been bullied by her colleagues.
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=2 ... e=20060203 (The above)
And
http://www.thelocal.se/19376/20090511 Concerning Swedish rape law and how the word rape has been redefined.(Although apparently the swedes themselves understand the differences)
To see a more critical article
http://sunnysinghonline.blogspot.com/20 ... women.html
http://www.freewebs.com/feminism-evaluated/ (Mark, < This is so I can find and read more of it later)
^led me to,
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminist Definition one matches the 'correct' definition of feminism, definition two does not. 2. organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
http://allnurses-central.com/world-news ... 98953.html (this one had me laughing)
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... irl-power/
http://www.australian-news.com.au/domes ... _Falls.htm (Just stumbled on this not really relevant to the discussion though.)
http://theantifeminist.com/swedish-dad- ... ce-system/ (This contradicts your equal parenting claim. I can't remember if you said you were Swedish or not, do you have sources to back up your equal parenting claims? Keep in mind the this would include custody after divorce)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers%27 ... try#Sweden
If the sources(of the wiki link) check out Sweden cannot be called an equal parenting state.
Last edited by ikorack on 30 Mar 2011, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
30 Mar 2011, 10:02 am
