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cw10
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21 Aug 2011, 3:54 am

I've considered this.

I put this in philosophy because it's just a bright idea.

Could black holes be Bose-Einstein condensates of some form or another?

According to Hawking, the temperature of a black hole is in the millionths of a degree above absolute zero unless it's a primordial black hole (conjectured to exist).

You folks are pretty smart, what's your takes?


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ruveyn
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21 Aug 2011, 5:48 am

cw10 wrote:
I've considered this.

I put this in philosophy because it's just a bright idea.

Could black holes be Bose-Einstein condensates of some form or another?

According to Hawking, the temperature of a black hole is in the millionths of a degree above absolute zero unless it's a primordial black hole (conjectured to exist).

You folks are pretty smart, what's your takes?


Bose Einstein condensates are not dense enough to prevent the emission of light.

Bose Einstein condensates have been created (recently) and they are NOT Black Holes.

And why wasn't this posted in the science forum?

ruveyn



shrox
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21 Aug 2011, 5:59 am

I would imagine tidal forces in a black hole would prevent the stability of a "cold spot" long enough for the condensate to form. The tests done here required specially controlled conditions to get even close.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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21 Aug 2011, 6:15 am

I cheated a little by doing some googling, but in any case was reminded of one big problem, if we're assuming that the core is made of neutrons: neutrons are not bosons, so they don't obey Bose-Einstein statistics (Fermi-Dirac statistics instead).

OTOH, I wonder if neutrons can form Cooper pairs, so that the pairs act as bosons.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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21 Aug 2011, 6:41 am

Interesting thread at the link below. A guy there, who sounds like he knows what he's talking about, indicates that it is thought to be true. (See the last post first.)

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=76438



cw10
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21 Aug 2011, 3:35 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
Interesting thread at the link below. A guy there, who sounds like he knows what he's talking about, indicates that it is thought to be true. (See the last post first.)

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=76438


Interesting.



shrox
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21 Aug 2011, 6:50 pm

How quickly can BE condensates form in nature (if they do)? Are they instantaneous, then fall apart just as quickly? The tests I have seen on video took a few seconds to drop the temperature, and most of the remaining particles jump out of the well, then the few that remain hit zero K, then a stray particle energizes them again and they all jump out of the well. This took a few nanoseconds.



cw10
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21 Aug 2011, 11:33 pm

shrox wrote:
How quickly can BE condensates form in nature (if they do)? Are they instantaneous, then fall apart just as quickly? The tests I have seen on video took a few seconds to drop the temperature, and most of the remaining particles jump out of the well, then the few that remain hit zero K, then a stray particle energizes them again and they all jump out of the well. This took a few nanoseconds.


I'm pretty sure they're not natural, unless a condensate could form of neutron material in the state a black hole is in, that's all I'm conjecturing. Although when you talk a few nanoseconds, to the gravity well of a black hole, a few nanoseconds would last quite a long time from our perspective.



cw10
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21 Aug 2011, 11:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Bose Einstein condensates are not dense enough to prevent the emission of light.

Bose Einstein condensates have been created (recently) and they are NOT Black Holes.

And why wasn't this posted in the science forum?

ruveyn


Yes I know this. In the same way sand isn't a bottle. But sand can be made into a bottle, that's what I'm asking. :)

I posted it here because it's a more philosophical question since we'll never really know what's down there so to speak, and also because I'm more comfortable here in this forum. :)