Male circumcision

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So you consider inflicting pain on infants acceptable because they won't remember it later in life?

I have been to several brisses where the young male infant fell asleep while mohale trimmed him. Infants of age 8 days have very low pain awareness. I have only seen one briss where the infant cried and I was not sure whether he had gas or felt pain from the operation.

ruveyn

a)I work in a hospital. We do all kinds of horrible things to all kinds of people, starting with newborn infants and progressing to people literally on their deathbeds. I personally participate in a lot of it (though I don't participate in circimcision). I restate, though, that I don't think I should pretend to have a deciding stake in the issue; if I were to have a son, I'd let his theoretical father make the final decision on the matter.
b)you'd be wrong. Female circumcision often involves the removal of the entire clitoris, sometimes even digging down to get at the nerve roots. The male equivalent to that would be lopping off the entire head of the penis. Milder forms of female circumcision involve removing the hood of the clitoris; that's the equivalent procedure to male circumcision. The entire point of female circumcision, though, is to make sex unpleasant or at least not pleasurable, in order to disincentivise women from having sex with anyone other than the man legally entitled to force her to have sex with him. Men, on the other hand, seem to be just as randy circumcised and uncircumcised.

And women in white coats. And, don't forget, the mothers are stuck with needles frequently just on the way to giving birth, and they pay for that too. Not only that, but people pay to literally be cut up with very sharp knives in hospitals! Not only that, but it's a major political debate right now whether or not being stuck with needles and cut up with sharp knives in hospitals is a basic human right.

Very well, pain isn't always involved in the process. That still leaves lack of consent and unnecessary procedure.

Preventing cancer of the glans penis is not unnecessary.

ruveyn

It doesn't prevent cancer of the glans, it slightly decreases the chance of an already rare kind of cancer to develop. Still unnecessary, we can skip to lack of consent if you want.

It is a benefit, to some degree.

Listen. If you have a son, let him be intact. That would be the best thing for you. However what other people do is none of your business. If the child of someone who is a stranger to you is trimmed it has nothing to do with you and does not harm you in the least so you have no standing in the matter and you have no say.

Each parent has to make decisions for their infant children. So be it.

ruveyn

So, babies have low enough pain awareness that they don't feel their penis being cut, yet they cry from gas? My bullshit detector is going off full blare...

Here's what's actually happening: the baby's going into shock. Like the same kind of shock you'd go into if you hacked your arm off with a chainsaw, or got half your head blown off by a grenade, or had some other truly horrific injury. This has been medically tested, and it is known that babies go into shock from circumcisions without anesthesia. That's why most of them eventually quiet down during the procedure, and certainly not because they fall asleep.

When those decisions involve mutilation and are done without the child having any say then I care, sue me. Children are not puppets for parents to do with as they please.

There is no evidence that I am aware of that infants given a circumcision by a doctor of a licensed mohale go into shock. I have never heard of such a thing happening. Do you have any scientific statistics to back up your supposition. If so please provide a reference preferably to a reputable medical journal.

Actually it is a very simple procedure and no worse than piecing the ears of a child. Do you object to drilling a hole in the earlobe of a child. To be consistent, you should

Meanwhile, have a look at this:
http://www.disabled-world.com/health/ma ... cision.php

ruveyn

I thought that some of you might derive a giggle out of this one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlIMh_W5Lt4[/youtube]

If you cut your right arm, you will reduce the chances of getting an arm tumor by 50%.

Which is precisely why folks like me intend to resort to lobbying and legal action to get circumcision banned!

but your point, to which i replied, was equally unscientific.