Why I am not a Catholic (briefly)

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Kraichgauer
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27 Oct 2011, 5:58 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I have friends who are Catholic, and while I don't agree with all their theology, I still consider them to to Christians.
My favorite Catholic, though, is Michael Moore, as his love and concern for those without, and his fight for their interest as his response to God's grace, is very exemplary of Christianity in general.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Michael Moore is worth around $50 million, even though he chooses to dress like a bum. So as a humanitarian, his "love and concern for those without" comes up a bit short, especially when you consider that a) he claims to be against capitalism and for spreading the wealth around (how about his wealth? Lead by example!), and that b) he made his millions as a capitalist.

So he's a rich fat cat who has love and concern for those without.

He has $49+ million more than he needs to survive, while others he could help are dying of hunger. So he's easily on the greedy side of the greedy/giving scale.

Quote:

Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Mark 10:23-25

Michael Moore in fact uses his money to help the disadvantaged. That's the whole point of his documentaries, which in fact have drawn attention to the needs of the poor, the under insured, downsized workers, etc. And now, he's lending his support to the Occupy Wall Street movement, speaking up for the 99% who have been left adrift by unregulated capitalism.
And when has Sean Hannity ever cared about those without? As I recall, he and the rest of Fox noise is on this kick so popular among conservatives these days, that if you complain about social and economic inequities between the super rich an the rest of us, you're engaging in class warfare against the poor, poor rich!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Hannity cares about defeating Obama, under whom black unemployment has increased to its highest level ever (16.7%). Also, by every metric you care to name, Obama has destroyed the economy. Protestors shouting at rich executives doesn't do anything, and Obama knows it. He still gets the huge campaign contributions from the very same rich corporations these OWS people he claims to support are protesting! He likes a good rabble, so he keeps stoking it on. Again, HE is the PRESIDENT. HIS policies have hurt these people who are protesting, along with the rest of America. So WHY aren't they protesting HIM?
Call in to Hannity's radio program sometimes. Lemme know when, I'd love to hear it.

The fact of the matter is, Obama had tried to fix the economy, it it was the Republicans who had dug their heels in. Obama, to his discredit, had tried to be a conciliator working with the right. The economy is in the toilet because of unfettered capitalism, and because the Republicans are more interested in siding with big money who they appease with not only tax cuts, but also with cuts in social programs. And now, they want the rest of us to shoulder the tax burden, while the so called job creators are free to create employment - - in Bangladesh.l And yes, this does all go back to Bush.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Looks more like Obama has tried to wreck the economy even further.

Btw, Obama was one of the ones sueing banks when they weren't making these loans to people that couldn't afford them.

Obama is going after the banks that have preyed on consumers, got them to take out loan after loan, then pulled the rug out from under them when they couldn't keep up with payments. Payments that were in fact often altered by greedy, heartless lenders.
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into the poor, set upon bankers horseshit.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Obama was one of the people that was sueing banks for not making those loans.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=431_1314157066

What DW_a_mom wrote, as she obviously has a better grasp on this whole mess than either of us do.
Figures the Republicans would try to pin the economy on the poor.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

91
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27 Oct 2011, 8:28 pm

DW's posts are dead on correct.

Ragtime wrote:

The command to abstain from relating with the dead is a command for man. Jesus, being the God who gave the command in the first place, is not bound by it, just as He mentions He is "Lord also of the Sabbath", and thus can treat it as He wishes.

Christ was both God and man. He states the Sabbath is made for man not man for the Sabbath. It is not just him who can treat it as he wishes. The command relating to the dead does not say one cannot pray to the dead. The command is one in line with a great deal of OT law relating to the use of divination and necromancy. If Christ had sinned as a man, then he would have sinned; but he did not sin in his action, he was blameless.

Ragtime wrote:

I don't read Maccabees as Scripture; I accept the canon. Also, why would the dead need to pray for us, and what good would it do beyond the living praying for us? (...the latter of which is Scriptural, and very much so.) Christ is our intercessor. (Romans 8; Hebrews 7) And no intercessor among the dead is ever mentioned.

Can you keep your red herrings to one per paragraph.... it seems you just want to spill out your misinformation as fast as possible and gives me no sense you want a discussion. Bataar has already more than answered you on Maccabees. At this point you have been given sufficient reason to reexamine your assumptions. As for the intercession of the Saints and dead: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-inte ... the-saints

"At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps" (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]). St Augustine

Ragtime wrote:

There is no spiritual authority among men. None. In Scripture there are teachers only. No one is spiritually accountable to a certain other who is set in a certain office to be accounted to.

Really no spiritual authority among men?

'These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.' Titus 2:15

Anyone who has studied the life of St. Ignatius the Bishop of Antioch and student of John the Apostle cannot escape the conclusions that many protestant views on spiritual authority are misguided. We have in the very first generation after the Apostles the establishment of the Bishops, the emphasis on the real presence etc.

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NeantHumain
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28 Oct 2011, 9:44 am

To me, all this disagreement on the fine points of different Christian sects' theology is just so much blathering.

Ragtime
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28 Oct 2011, 11:13 am

91 wrote:

DW's posts are dead on correct.

Ragtime wrote:

There is no spiritual authority among men. None. In Scripture there are teachers only. No one is spiritually accountable to a certain other who is set in a certain office to be accounted to.

Meh, let's just stop. You have a good idea where I stand, and I you.

Bataar
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28 Oct 2011, 11:24 am

Some of the reasons people complain about Catholics are so far out there it's almost funny, if it wasn't so sad. It would be like me saying I'm not a democrat because they butcher live cats before any meetings.

Ragtime
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28 Oct 2011, 2:09 pm

Bataar wrote:

I could say something about that which would turn a corner in this debate, and lauch it into a mere offshoot of itself, but I think people are about done listening.

I'll close by saying that, as a classical music afficionado, I enjoy both the Catholic and the Protestant composers very much.

(Long lists of each.)

91
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28 Oct 2011, 3:13 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Meh, let's just stop. You have a good idea where I stand, and I you.

Fair call.

_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

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