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techstepgenr8tion
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27 Oct 2011, 10:25 pm

I've noticed on occasion some odd that comes out of a lot of supposedly scientific minded individuals and its something that I've never understood; ie. a sneering contempt for 'philosophy', its looked upon much in the same light they see theism (ie. psychobabble). This blog I think hits the nail on my head about my own beliefs.

Have you ever come up with a hypothesis or an interpretation of meaning to scientific data? Welcome to philosophy, you're already steeped in it.

http://thephilosopherschair.com/35-scie ... philosophy


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Obres
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27 Oct 2011, 10:34 pm

Both are attempts to understand the nature of the world, the universe, ourselves and reality in general. The difference is that science works from the bottom up and produces knowledge, while philosophy works from the top down and produces baristas.



techstepgenr8tion
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27 Oct 2011, 10:52 pm

Isn't philosophy really just a pool of hypothesis though? For all I can tell we use it on a low level when we're between scientific experiments trying to decide what we want to do next with the raw data that science provides.


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Awesomelyglorious
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27 Oct 2011, 11:58 pm

Well, the issue comes in due to thinking styles and methods of discovery. Yes, science is philosophical in certain elements, but scientists will not tend to make the same intellectual moves as philosophers, and distrust those intellectual moves.



Tadzio
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28 Oct 2011, 12:09 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I've noticed on occasion some odd that comes out of a lot of supposedly scientific minded individuals and its something that I've never understood; ie. a sneering contempt for 'philosophy', its looked upon much in the same light they see theism (ie. psychobabble). This blog I think hits the nail on my head about my own beliefs.

Have you ever come up with a hypothesis or an interpretation of meaning to scientific data? Welcome to philosophy, you're already steeped in it.

http://thephilosopherschair.com/35-scie ... philosophy


Science is a branch of Philosophy.

Philosophy is often a subject of Science.

Science is often a subject of Philosophy.

I've studied General Relativity, and I often doubt the explanation about the force of gravity.

The website tends to promote religion.

The video has been removed by the user (Debunking Stupidity-Science and Phil.)

The person promotes metaphysics between her "God and Satan", and theology, ontology, supernaturals, universal first principles, while inferring that atheists are "blind".

Tadzio



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28 Oct 2011, 2:36 am

Science is a branch of philosophy. The modern educational is left-wing scientistic garbage, however, and it has turned many intelligent, able people into barbarians.

Scientists sneer at philosophy more because they don't understand it, and it's unpopular among their generally left-wing cliques, than anything else. They don't realise without the laws of non-contradiction they're just jerking off in an isolation tank.



Tadzio
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28 Oct 2011, 3:24 am

StonedMoonie wrote:
Science is a branch of philosophy. The modern educational is left-wing scientistic garbage, however, and it has turned many intelligent, able people into barbarians.

Scientists sneer at philosophy more because they don't understand it, and it's unpopular among their generally left-wing cliques, than anything else. They don't realise without the laws of non-contradiction they're just jerking off in an isolation tank.


You have the Kinsey Report confused with the Bikini Atoll's nuclear tests and rocket launches.
But these left-wing computer electronics are a door for major coop-hinges failing.

Tadzio



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28 Oct 2011, 8:01 am

But still - the philosopher forms a hypothesis, the scientists works in ways to come up with quantifiable experiments to test components of that hypothesis to find a theory or, at an even later date, find a law. The philosopher is only off in idiot land if he's claiming things that have already been scientifically disproven.

Outside of that science tells us what's out there, it can't give guidance on how to use it. At least for the time being we haven't gotten into the business of quantifying the good or bad of decisions or come up with experiments big enough of comprehensive enough to prove beyond debate ore even more discovery what are the most salient in shaping our societies and perspectives as well as what ideas produce the best outcomes.


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ruveyn
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28 Oct 2011, 8:37 am

Tadzio wrote:

I've studied General Relativity, and I often doubt the explanation about the force of gravity.



Gravitation, in the context of General Relativity , is not a force. It is curvature of the spacetime manifold. But gravitation does produce tidal forces on objects not unlike torsion.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 28 Oct 2011, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Oct 2011, 8:45 am

to me philosophy is all well and good, untill people tyu to actually use it as an argument or oreason, philosophy has no anchor to the real world and people often forget.


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techstepgenr8tion
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28 Oct 2011, 8:57 am

Oodain wrote:
to me philosophy is all well and good, untill people tyu to actually use it as an argument or oreason, philosophy has no anchor to the real world and people often forget.

Can you elaborate what you mean by that? I'm not sure I follow.


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ruveyn
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28 Oct 2011, 9:29 am

Oodain wrote:
to me philosophy is all well and good, untill people tyu to actually use it as an argument or oreason, philosophy has no anchor to the real world and people often forget.


A good part of philosophy is not grounded in solid fact. Solid fact is ultimately the grounding of natural science.

ruveyn



mar00
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28 Oct 2011, 9:44 am

My eyes bled reading it. Whoever wrote that article has apparently never studied nor science nor philosophy. The ignorance of people who do not bother understanding science is amazing. Science is not a branch of philosophy – it was hundreds of years ago.



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28 Oct 2011, 12:11 pm

StonedMoonie wrote:
Science is a branch of philosophy. The modern educational is left-wing scientistic garbage, however, and it has turned many intelligent, able people into barbarians.

Scientists sneer at philosophy more because they don't understand it, and it's unpopular among their generally left-wing cliques, than anything else. They don't realise without the laws of non-contradiction they're just jerking off in an isolation tank.


You're right, I don't understand what the hell you're talking about. Maybe if I had a little of whatever you're on...

Btw, how's that search for the meaning of life coming along? Did philosophy solve that one yet? Because science figured out how the universe began, where humans came from, and how to talk with a guy halfway around the world in real-time. So what exactly has philosophy done?



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28 Oct 2011, 12:35 pm

mar00 wrote:
My eyes bled reading it. Whoever wrote that article has apparently never studied nor science nor philosophy. The ignorance of people who do not bother understanding science is amazing. Science is not a branch of philosophy – it was hundreds of years ago.

I don't know that defining science into the same pool with philosophy is useful but, at least 'enlightened philosophy' is what you have as the steps between experiments, the questions asked to be answered.

It could well be that I have absolutely no idea what philosophy is and that I'm rose-coloring the heck out of it by redifining it as every useful non-experimental thought but, I at least *think* Merriam Webster is sighting something pretty similar to what I'm saying:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1319823119
Quote:
Definition of PHILOSOPHY
1a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy> (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : physical science (2) : ethics c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the philosophy of war>
4a : the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group


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