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Master_Pedant
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21 Jan 2012, 1:13 am

Given the amount of times I've seen anti-feminist threads on this board (some with pretty friggin' bad arguments, btw), I must ask - does anyone else agree with the feminist propositions? Namely, that...


  • Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.
  • Structural inequalities that disadvantage women still exist.


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LKL
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21 Jan 2012, 1:27 am

well, yeah. The only thing that I would add is that there are a lot of things under the current patriarchal system that disadvantage men, too (for example, the idea that men cannot competently care for children (and that a father cannot love his children as much as a mother) as well as women, solely by virtue of their gender).



Master_Pedant
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21 Jan 2012, 1:55 am

LKL wrote:
well, yeah. The only thing that I would add is that there are a lot of things under the current patriarchal system that disadvantage men, too (for example, the idea that men cannot competently care for children (and that a father cannot love his children as much as a mother) as well as women, solely by virtue of their gender).


As the son of a single-father, I'd probably agree with that. But I tried to limit the propositions to what I regard as the necessary and sufficient conditions of contemporary feminisms (though, perhaps, the idea of "family resemblances" rather than a rigid checklist makes sense here).


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donnie_darko
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21 Jan 2012, 3:47 am

I think there needs to be a men's rights movement to compliment the women's rights movement. See, I view it as gender roles keeping both sexes down, not as men preying on women collectively.



LKL
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21 Jan 2012, 4:25 am

the self-styled 'men's rights activists' are almost entirely misogynists who are upset that they can't sleep with any woman they want without consequences; who want full custody of any children they father but don't want to pay child support; who want compliant dolls rather than human partners; and who are extremely bitter towards women for not giving them all of that. They are men who simultaneously whine about how women 'want a man to support them so that they can sponge off of him like a parasite,' and about how 'feminism has given women the false idea that they have any legitimate role in the workforce.'

They are, in short, a self-inflicted, purulent, oozing sore on western masculinity.

http://manboobz.com/



puddingmouse
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21 Jan 2012, 4:37 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Given the amount of times I've seen anti-feminist threads on this board (some with pretty friggin' bad arguments, btw), I must ask - does anyone else agree with the feminist propositions? Namely, that...


  • Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.
  • Structural inequalities that disadvantage women still exist.


Yep.

Cannot be bothered engaging with anti-feminists, though. I value my sanity (what's left of it).


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Asp-Z
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21 Jan 2012, 6:12 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyLSstqMvH8[/youtube]



codarac
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21 Jan 2012, 6:31 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
[*]Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.


No. Men and women are different, and they complement each other. Masculinity and feminity are better ideals to strive for, rather than trying to get men and women to become what they are not. True human equality will only be achieved when the human race has gone extinct. The equality ideal is anti-life.

It's amazing how easy it's been to fool people into thinking that getting more women to be wage slaves for corporations equates to liberation.



Tim_Tex
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21 Jan 2012, 7:10 am

I agree with those.


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mar00
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21 Jan 2012, 7:19 am

puddingmouse wrote:
Yep.
Cannot be bothered engaging with anti-feminists, though. I value my sanity (what's left of it).

Yep yep!
And my deficit of that human thing makes it that much harder to understand irrational resistance to feministic ideas. Even though fortunately they are all around us and that's the way forward. What strikes me that people rarely bother telling any difference between various branches of feminism usually identifying it with the radical one.
Also insisting on differences instead of similarities. Or failing to acknowledge the shortcomings and all the basic 'human' inequality. Or event that the problem exists (-ed). Or that by complement they actually mean enslavement. What does opposing feminism tell about men??



VMSmith
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21 Jan 2012, 8:50 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Given the amount of times I've seen anti-feminist threads on this board (some with pretty friggin' bad arguments, btw), I must ask - does anyone else agree with the feminist propositions? Namely, that...


  • Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.
  • Structural inequalities that disadvantage women still exist.

yep. im a feminist. it's what i wanted to be as a child and it is what i will be till the day i die.

Quote:
well, yeah. The only thing that I would add is that there are a lot of things under the current patriarchal system that disadvantage men, too (for example, the idea that men cannot competently care for children (and that a father cannot love his children as much as a mother) as well as women, solely by virtue of their gender).

agreed

Quote:
the self-styled 'men's rights activists' are almost entirely misogynists who are upset that they can't sleep with any woman they want without consequences; who want full custody of any children they father but don't want to pay child support; who want compliant dolls rather than human partners; and who are extremely bitter towards women for not giving them all of that. They are men who simultaneously whine about how women 'want a man to support them so that they can sponge off of him like a parasite,' and about how 'feminism has given women the false idea that they have any legitimate role in the workforce.'

They are, in short, a self-inflicted, purulent, oozing sore on western masculinity.

omg. yes.
Quote:
I think there needs to be a men's rights movement to compliment the women's rights movement. See, I view it as gender roles keeping both sexes down, not as men preying on women collectively.

i agree that gender roles oppress everyone and i agree with the sentiment that men do not collectively prey on women or benefit from their subjection. but i do not think a mens movement is necessary. feminism is about removing gender roles that oppress the genders and creating gender equality. that should address any problem men might have but besides that men don't exactly suffer from widespread structural oppression the way women do. they get to control their bodies, they are not paid less, their opinions are valued more, for the most part their bodies are not used to sell cars, etc they occupy a position of privilege in society.

Quote:
Cannot be bothered engaging with anti-feminists, though. I value my sanity (what's left of it).

god i know. it is so exhausting. much as i love a good argument, arguments with anti feminists don't ever turn out good. i can almost plan out their arguments so it is like talking to myself.

i get this a lot:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn0t1EkPe4c&feature=g-like&context=G2fd9eb4ALTxjLPgAAAA[/youtube]



Descartes
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21 Jan 2012, 10:40 am

codarac wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
[*]Gender equality is an ideal to strive for.


No. Men and women are different, and they complement each other. Masculinity and feminity are better ideals to strive for...


There's nothing wrong with masculinity and femininity per se, but...

codarac wrote:
...rather than trying to get men and women to become what they are not.


...this is where you make your logical fallacy. Sure, people can conform to traditional notions of gender roles if they want, but would there also be room for people who do not? Should men be able to be feminine and women masculine?


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WilliamWDelaney
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21 Jan 2012, 10:43 am

It's no longer about gender equality. It's no longer about liberating people who are oppressed. It's no longer about breaking down barriers. It's about hate. If you can't see that, you are blind.

I have a friend going blind from Type 2 Diabetes mellitus because he had to work in a fast food job and picked up bad habits while at that job. He had a degree in elementary education, and he was more than qualified for all of the positions he was interviewed for. However, wherever he went, he was treated as a pedophile. Modern feminism doesn't address this kind of nonsense because it stopped being about "equality" in the 1980s.

I would not give the time of day to a woman who called herself a "feminist." I have no use for such a baboon.



Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on 21 Jan 2012, 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Moog
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21 Jan 2012, 11:01 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
I had a post here in which I expressed some opinions about today's feminists. Whoever deleted it, I'm sorry you are such pathetic scum that you can't stand to hear the truth or have it heard.


Your post was deemed too offensive.

Now you are being offensive to the moderation staff.

Please express yourself respectfully and within the rules of the forum.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt12459.html

Thanks


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WilliamWDelaney
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21 Jan 2012, 11:05 am

Moog, I am under pressure, and it is affecting my judgment. I will take a break from posting for a while. Thank you for your understanding.



Moog
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21 Jan 2012, 11:13 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
Moog, I am under pressure, and it is affecting my judgment. I will take a break from posting for a while. Thank you for your understanding.


It might be for the best. I hope you feel better.


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