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hyperlexian
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03 Apr 2012, 10:34 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??

if you don't want babies, don't have sex. or get a vasectomy - that's fully within your control. there are no guarantees in this life. having sex means that you are accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


Well then what are condoms and birth control for? sex does not = accepting the responsibility of parenthood.

there is always a chance of pregnancy as no birth control is 100%. you can take 3 kinds of birth control at once and still get pregnant. so if you absolutely cannot abide with a pregnancy, abstinence is the only answer.

nobody should entrap anyone else and i am glad that there are safeguards for that. HOWEVER there isn't really "informed consent" when it comes to birth control... if you use the birth control and it accidentally fails, you're on the hook.


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Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 10:36 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Joker wrote:
It is very irrelivant if the women lies cause the man is still taking a risk of getting her pregnant.



WRONG


If she consents to sexual intercourse, than her getting pregnant is as much her responsibility as it is his. And if she is deceitful about using birth control, than her responsibility increases to 100%.



You see folks, the downside of gender equality is that women are going to have to get used to being responsible for their actions and will no longer have the "blame men" option available to them. I for one, think this is a GOOD THING.


Women are always responsible for their actions if fact the reason their are so many single mothers is because MEN are not responsible for THEIR ACTIONS no btw women do not need to lie to a man for sex cause their are not a lot of guys who will turn down sex under the law if a man impregnates a women then he has a responsibilty to take care of her and the child women will regarldess so no it still falls under the mans responsiblity.

so I AM RIGHT again and their is no downside to gender equality :wink:



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03 Apr 2012, 10:36 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??

if you don't want babies, don't have sex. or get a vasectomy - that's fully within your control. there are no guarantees in this life. having sex means that you are accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


Well then what are condoms and birth control for? sex does not = accepting the responsibility of parenthood.

there is always a chance of pregnancy as no birth control is 100%. you can take 3 kinds of birth control at once and still get pregnant. so if you absolutely cannot abide with a pregnancy, abstinence is the only answer.

Yes that is true, but you can't very well expect people to just stop having sex, and only having it for the purpose of having kids...it just won't happen. I mean I can do without sex but most people don't seem to have that ability.

nobody should entrap anyone else and i am glad that there are safeguards for that. HOWEVER there isn't really "informed consent" when it comes to birth control... if you use the birth control and it accidentally fails, you're on the hook.


Well I'm not worried, I don't think I am healthy enough to get pregnant anyways, and I don't like sex so I won't be pursuing it probably. But yeah I imagine its not good when birth control fails.


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hyperlexian
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03 Apr 2012, 10:39 pm

people make a choice - have sex and risk pregnancy, or don't have sex and have no risk at all. i personally don't care if people have sex or not, but if a couple has sex and the birth control accidentally fails, they are both responsible.


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Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 10:39 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??

if you don't want babies, don't have sex. or get a vasectomy - that's fully within your control. there are no guarantees in this life. having sex means that you are accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


Well then what are condoms and birth control for? sex does not = accepting the responsibility of parenthood.

there is always a chance of pregnancy as no birth control is 100%. you can take 3 kinds of birth control at once and still get pregnant. so if you absolutely cannot abide with a pregnancy, abstinence is the only answer.

Yes that is true, but you can't very well expect people to just stop having sex, and only having it for the purpose of having kids...it just won't happen. I mean I can do without sex but most people don't seem to have that ability.

nobody should entrap anyone else and i am glad that there are safeguards for that. HOWEVER there isn't really "informed consent" when it comes to birth control... if you use the birth control and it accidentally fails, you're on the hook.


Well I'm not worried, I don't think I am healthy enough to get pregnant anyways, and I don't like sex so I won't be pursuing it probably. But yeah I imagine its not good when birth control fails.


Birth control didn't work for my brothers ex girlfriend she was on the pill and still got pregnant to my favorite girl in the world my neicer Peyton she is my world I love her so much.



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03 Apr 2012, 10:44 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Joker wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??

if you don't want babies, don't have sex. or get a vasectomy - that's fully within your control. there are no guarantees in this life. having sex means that you are accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


Well then what are condoms and birth control for? sex does not = accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


I man can wear a condom during sex with a female and still get her pregnant and also some times birth control will not work in rare cases it has happened befor.


Yeah I know, that is what the morning after pill is for........or worst case senerio an abortion, but certainly not in the late terms of pregnancy.


Hmm I am not sure if she took the morning after pill but I am super and totally like happy she didn't cause I love my little neice so my got her hand prints tattooed on me.



03 Apr 2012, 10:45 pm

Joker wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Joker wrote:
It is very irrelivant if the women lies cause the man is still taking a risk of getting her pregnant.



WRONG


If she consents to sexual intercourse, than her getting pregnant is as much her responsibility as it is his. And if she is deceitful about using birth control, than her responsibility increases to 100%.



You see folks, the downside of gender equality is that women are going to have to get used to being responsible for their actions and will no longer have the "blame men" option available to them. I for one, think this is a GOOD THING.


Women are always responsible for their actions if fact the reason their are so many single mothers is because MEN are not responsible for THEIR ACTIONS



Do you not realize that if a child is born out of wedlock, family courts give custody of the children to the mother by default UNLESS the father can prove that the mother is unfit to care for the child(ren)? That is a big reason why there are so many single mothers.


Also hyperlexian, I fully acknowledge that men are just as guilty of women when it comes to pregnancy entrapment(AKA "reproductive coercion"). Sometimes it is outright rape, but more often guys come up with sneakier ways of doing it like poking holes in condoms, replacing her bc pills with placebos, I could go on. However, in countries like mine where abortion is legal, women have a way of this trap. Whereas outside of WV that I know of, men do not.



hyperlexian
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03 Apr 2012, 10:52 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Do you not realize that if a child is born out of wedlock, family courts give custody of the children to the mother by default UNLESS the father can prove that the mother is unfit to care for the child(ren)? That is a big reason why there are so many single mothers.

do you have a source for that?


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Sweetleaf
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03 Apr 2012, 10:52 pm

Joker wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Joker wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??

if you don't want babies, don't have sex. or get a vasectomy - that's fully within your control. there are no guarantees in this life. having sex means that you are accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


Well then what are condoms and birth control for? sex does not = accepting the responsibility of parenthood.


I man can wear a condom during sex with a female and still get her pregnant and also some times birth control will not work in rare cases it has happened befor.


Yeah I know, that is what the morning after pill is for........or worst case senerio an abortion, but certainly not in the late terms of pregnancy.


Hmm I am not sure if she took the morning after pill but I am super and totally like happy she didn't cause I love my little neice so my got her hand prints tattooed on me.


Alright well that's cool......my thing is if I did end up pregnant......I can hardly afford to stay in the hospital to have a baby, let alone afford to take care of him/her. So I would have to try and stop the pregnancy before it got too far.


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Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 10:52 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Joker wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Joker wrote:
It is very irrelivant if the women lies cause the man is still taking a risk of getting her pregnant.



WRONG


If she consents to sexual intercourse, than her getting pregnant is as much her responsibility as it is his. And if she is deceitful about using birth control, than her responsibility increases to 100%.



You see folks, the downside of gender equality is that women are going to have to get used to being responsible for their actions and will no longer have the "blame men" option available to them. I for one, think this is a GOOD THING.


Women are always responsible for their actions if fact the reason their are so many single mothers is because MEN are not responsible for THEIR ACTIONS



Do you not realize that if a child is born out of wedlock, family courts give custody of the children to the mother by default UNLESS the father can prove that the mother is unfit to care for the child(ren)? That is a big reason why there are so many single mothers.


Also hyperlexian, I fully acknowledge that men are just as guilty of women when it comes to pregnancy entrapment(AKA "reproductive coercion"). Sometimes it is outright rape, but more often guys come up with sneakier ways of doing it like poking holes in condoms, replacing her bc pills with placebos, I could go on. However, in countries like mine where abortion is legal, women have a way of this trap. Whereas outside of WV that I know of, men do not.


Okay first of all most mothers that are single mothers is because the so called man didn't step up and be a man and help raise the child my biological father did that to me and my mother.

Also why would a guy even need to be decifiul for sex sure guys do that but not to get a girl pregnant most of the time they do that just to deflower her. And really you use poking holes in a condom as a expample wow that is funny I hope your not serious about that and about replacing her pills with placebos most guys are scared to death about getting women pregnant

and also women are the mother they gave birth to the child of course the court will be in their favor because they are the MOTHER and most of the time the MOTHER is left to take care of her child on her on because as I have stated THE MAN REFUSED TO BE A MAN AND HELP TAKE CARE OF THE CHILD THAT IS HOW IT HAPPENS the women will be their for the child regardless even though that isnt always the case but almost all the time the mother rasies the child on her own.



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03 Apr 2012, 10:55 pm

Sometimes there are single moms because they decide to divorce their husband....that is what it was with my parents. My dad didn't really want to get divorced but now that it's over I could never see them back together, well except in dreams and that is weird for me......waking up unsure if I am going to go downstairs to my dad cooking or see my moms boyfriend and my mom drinking coffee or whatever.

With my cousin her dad just up and left pretty much, so that is why her mom was single.


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Joker
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03 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

When my mom divorced my sted dad who became like a real father figure to me I wasn't shocked casue he was good to me but neglected my mom which is one of the reasons for the divorce I know where your coming from though it makes me sad some days thinking about it.



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03 Apr 2012, 11:01 pm

Joker wrote:
When my mom divorced my sted dad who became like a real father figure to me I wasn't shocked casue he was good to me but neglected my mom which is one of the reasons for the divorce I know where your coming from though it makes me sad some days thinking about it.


Yeah I have seen my dad a lot lately though, he moved back to Colorado from Minnesota so now he's around, he got a job and is trying to make some money and such but its hard for him and he's pretty much homeless right now..But he's doing the best he can so that's all he can do. But yeah I know some of why they got divorced...my mom kinda changed in some ways and then well I won't go into it now cause I don't really want to think about it all.


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03 Apr 2012, 11:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Joker wrote:
When my mom divorced my sted dad who became like a real father figure to me I wasn't shocked casue he was good to me but neglected my mom which is one of the reasons for the divorce I know where your coming from though it makes me sad some days thinking about it.


Yeah I have seen my dad a lot lately though, he moved back to Colorado from Minnesota so now he's around, he got a job and is trying to make some money and such but its hard for him and he's pretty much homeless right now..But he's doing the best he can so that's all he can do. But yeah I know some of why they got divorced...my mom kinda changed in some ways and then well I won't go into it now cause I don't really want to think about it all.


Gosh I soo know the feeling right to me it feels like getting punched in the gut hate that feeling right now I kinda feel Yuck if you know what I mean.



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04 Apr 2012, 2:03 am

hyperlexian wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Do you not realize that if a child is born out of wedlock, family courts give custody of the children to the mother by default UNLESS the father can prove that the mother is unfit to care for the child(ren)? That is a big reason why there are so many single mothers.

do you have a source for that?

Hyperlexian, I'd be quite surprised if it *weren't* the truth that women automatically get custody. Women go through pregnancy and childbirth, and they get to keep the kid unless there is some indication that they shouldn't. If a man wants to invest in the child after it's born, he should have that right - up to and including equal custody, assuming that the two are equally good parents - but there's no excuse other than utter failure as a parent, and being a danger to one's own child, for the state to completely take away parental rights. If he really wants to bond with the child by doing half of the dirty diapers, half of the feedings, half of the colics, half of the waking-up-every-3-hours, more power to him. It's better for the kid to have two involved parents, married or not.

as far as single motherhood, I'm pretty sure it's because the fathers leave or were never interested in the first place.



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04 Apr 2012, 2:13 am

AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
he is still the father, regardless. yes it can occur without the consent of both parties, but that doesn't mean one party is less responsible. having sex carries a risk of pregnancy. if a person is that concerned about pregnancy, they should not be engaging in sex. it's pretty straightforward.



No, it's not. Also , this line of thought is exactly what anti-birth control abstinence advocates preach to women. Plenty of women wish to enjoy sex without having to worry(that much) about unwanted pregnancy. And the legality of abortion and birth control means they can. Why do men deserve any less? I'm sick and tired of women trying to push the responsibility for their own bodies onto men! :x Since she can abort the darn fetus without the fathers consent, then I say it is SHE who bears the responsibility for pregnancy. Using reproductive coercion to control someone else is completely unacceptable and it's time for the courts to put a stop to it.

BTW, would you tell this to a woman who got pregnant against her wishes because her partner cut a small slit in the condom he was using? Or secretly flushed her BC pills down the toilet and replaced them with a placebo??


FWIW, I agree with you in theory. I don't know how it would work in practice, though.


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