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Sinn Fein wants referendum on Irish unification

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Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 5:15 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I am a strong SF supporter. I don't see me no longer supporting them. Plus I was happy to see the queen of England. Shake hands with Gerry Adams 8) That made my day :D


And that kind of rhetoric ensures a divided Ireland.


The main issue to me is that. Their all Irish let it be a country. For the Irish and the Irish alone.


You really haven't got a clue.

And what of the Unionists (the Ulster Protestants who have lived in Ireland longer than the U.S. has been a state)? Are they not every bit as Irish as everyone else on the island? Can the people of Northern Ireland not decide their own future - i.e. to stay in the UK?

Unionists are Irish too, you know. They are also British.


I know they are but they care to. Much about their birtish culture then their. Irish roots which angers me. Sigh...I was born in the wrong country.



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 5:23 pm

What's wrong with being an Irishman that would prefer to remain in the UK? There is a sizeable number of pro-Union Catholics in Northern Ireland, who historically would have supported a UI. Answer me that.



Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 5:39 pm

Tequila wrote:
What's wrong with being an Irishman that would prefer to remain in the UK? There is a sizeable number of pro-Union Catholics in Northern Ireland, who historically would have supported a UI. Answer me that.


They neglect their Irish roots. I mean I live in America but I don't consider myself one. I view myself as Irish. But people in the UK don't see it that. Way unless I go to Ireland and visit my family. At least they view me as one of their own.



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 6:06 pm

Joker wrote:
They neglect their Irish roots.


I'm talking about people who see themselves as culturally Irish, perhaps play Gaelic sports, maybe even speak the Irish language... but feel comfortable living in the United Kingdom as Irishmen. Their Irish identity is respected and they can get on with life as everyone else in the rest of the UK (and the RoI) does.

What do you have to say to that?



Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 6:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
They neglect their Irish roots.


I'm talking about people who see themselves as culturally Irish, perhaps play Gaelic sports, maybe even speak the Irish language... but feel comfortable living in the United Kingdom as Irishmen. Their Irish identity is respected and they can get on with life as everyone else in the rest of the UK (and the RoI) does.

What do you have to say to that?


I mean why? They where oppressed by those people. For 800 years why would they want. To have anything to do with the UK. I mean why remain in the UK when historically. They viewed them as sub-human.



DefinitelyKmart
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03 Jul 2012, 10:53 am

oh i get whats going on here, either jokers troll in badly. Or he actually thinks he's irish when he isn't at all, the latter seems more likely. tell me this, if the people of ni neglect they're irish roots, then your family did the whole hog and left ireland. you aren't anything to do with ireland just have some delusional idea that you are because of a surname, with half cooked facts and wishful thinking, irish anglo relations have never viewed either as sub human. But following jokers lead, i once met a man from palestine from now on i will support the palestinian cause...



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03 Jul 2012, 11:24 am

No, the English did at one point view the Irish as subhuman. The invasion of Ireland by Cromwell's forces led to the death of roughly half the population of Ireland. Granted, it was mostly through starvation, but there were a number of massacres (not to say the other side was completely innocent). Nevertheless, there was an attitude amongst the Parliamentarian forces in Ireland that was lacking in the English campaign. It was a callous disregard for life and an increased bloodlust. It's been argued that it's an early case of genocide, and I don't disagree.

Also, during the 19th century, at the height of the British empire, there were a great deal of pseudo- scientific theories going around about how nthe Irish were 'less evolved'. More ape-like:
Image

However, Joker doesn't know what he's talking about and he is all-American, with only Irish ancestry.


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YippySkippy
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03 Jul 2012, 11:35 am

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irish anglo relations have never viewed either as sub human


Though it may be unhealthy to fixate on the past, neither should we forget it. The fact is, the English absolutely did treat the Irish as sub-human. During the potato famine, a satirical article ("A Modest Proposal") suggested that the starving Irish should eat their own babies. Many people in England failed to recognize the piece as satire, and supported the idea.



DefinitelyKmart
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03 Jul 2012, 12:15 pm

I know that, but when i used the word subhuman, i guess i was using it in the sense of jews and nazi's untermensch sort of connotations, A couple of satirical pictures don't hold that we to the irish were like the nazis to the jews. Although i will admit we were by no means even decent and in the 19th century the extend of our imperial genocide is only just coming to light.



Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 1:51 pm

DefinitelyKmart wrote:
oh i get whats going on here, either jokers troll in badly. Or he actually thinks he's irish when he isn't at all, the latter seems more likely. tell me this, if the people of ni neglect they're irish roots, then your family did the whole hog and left ireland. you aren't anything to do with ireland just have some delusional idea that you are because of a surname, with half cooked facts and wishful thinking, irish anglo relations have never viewed either as sub human. But following jokers lead, i once met a man from palestine from now on i will support the palestinian cause...


I am Irish a Irish American.



Joker
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03 Jul 2012, 1:53 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
No, the English did at one point view the Irish as subhuman. The invasion of Ireland by Cromwell's forces led to the death of roughly half the population of Ireland. Granted, it was mostly through starvation, but there were a number of massacres (not to say the other side was completely innocent). Nevertheless, there was an attitude amongst the Parliamentarian forces in Ireland that was lacking in the English campaign. It was a callous disregard for life and an increased bloodlust. It's been argued that it's an early case of genocide, and I don't disagree.

Also, during the 19th century, at the height of the British empire, there were a great deal of pseudo- scientific theories going around about how nthe Irish were 'less evolved'. More ape-like:
Image

However, Joker doesn't know what he's talking about and he is all-American, with only Irish ancestry.


You would think that but I know. A lot about the irish history. And my family history as well. Which btw I have family living in Ireland. I AM Irish amnerican my great granparents where full blooded Irish. They immagrated to American so yes I am Irish.



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03 Jul 2012, 1:58 pm

DefinitelyKmart wrote:
I know that, but when i used the word subhuman, i guess i was using it in the sense of jews and nazi's untermensch sort of connotations, A couple of satirical pictures don't hold that we to the irish were like the nazis to the jews. Although i will admit we were by no means even decent and in the 19th century the extend of our imperial genocide is only just coming to light.


Oh you for get about slavery as well.



Tequila
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03 Jul 2012, 1:58 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
No, the English did at one point view the Irish as subhuman.


The elites also viewed lots of the Scottish and Welsh as subhuman as well - the Highland clearances anyone?



Last edited by Tequila on 03 Jul 2012, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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03 Jul 2012, 2:01 pm

Joker wrote:
Oh you for get about slavery as well.


The United Kingdom was the first country to abolish slavery. The British abolished slavery in the entire British Empire in 1807; it took the Americans until 1865 to remove that piece of law. Racist laws and segregation continued right up until the 1960s in the United States. We in the UK have not had similar racist laws like that, although I'll grant you there was discrimination in Ireland.



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03 Jul 2012, 2:06 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Oh you for get about slavery as well.


The United Kingdom was the first country to abolish slavery. The British abolished slavery in the entire British Empire in 1807; it took the Americans until 1865 to remove that piece of law. Racist laws and segregation continued right up until the 1960s in the United States. We in the UK have not had similar racist laws like that, although I'll grant you there was discrimination in Ireland.


the Irish were enslaved. Around the English Proclomation in the 17th Century. Inbetween 80,000 and 120,000 were sent to the Americas as slaves, including women and children. Many died due to disease, heat and hunger.