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Sinn Fein wants referendum on Irish unification

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Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 3:33 pm

Ireland was unifed before the english and brits showed up and crashed the party.



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 3:38 pm

Joker wrote:
Ireland was unifed before the english and brits showed up and crashed the party.


When? Ireland has never been united as a proper single, cohesive and self-governing nation. Ireland was ruled by clans - and the original invasion of Ireland wasn't by the English or British but actually by the Normans (who also invaded England, don't forget)! In fact, the only time that united was united was in the United Kingdom. I really don't think you have a clue about Irish history.



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02 Jul 2012, 3:40 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Ireland was unifed before the english and brits showed up and crashed the party.


When? Ireland has never been united as a proper single, cohesive and self-governing nation. Before the English and the British came, Ireland was ruled by clans. In fact, the only time that united was united was in the United Kingdom. I really don't think you have a clue about Irish history.


it was during the times of tribes in Irleand. Sure it wasn't a self-governing nation but they still got along just fine. With out the Brits and the English who love colonizing things.



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02 Jul 2012, 3:42 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Sinn Fein has nationalistic goals.


The cult of nationalism amongst many Sinn Féiners isn't dissimilar to the cult of religion espoused by the religious types.

No sensible person who wants a UI would vote SF. The moderate Nationalist (and Unionist) parties have the right idea, but moderate politics has little support in NI. The Republic of Ireland is making the groundwork towards better relations between North and South, and relations between the two jurisdictions are actually very good. People in the Republic supporting SF in large numbers will jeopardise all that.



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02 Jul 2012, 3:46 pm

Tequila wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Sinn Fein has nationalistic goals.


The cult of nationalism amongst many Sinn Féiners isn't dissimilar to the cult of religion espoused by the religious types.

No sensible person who wants a UI would vote SF. The moderate Nationalist (and Unionist) parties have the right idea, but moderate politics has little support in NI. The Republic of Ireland is making the groundwork towards better relations between North and South, and relations between the two jurisdictions are actually very good. People in the Republic supporting SF in large numbers will jeopardise all that.


You couldn't be more wrong about that. Go on (youtube) you will find a lot of people, that live in Ireland! that support Sinn Fein' and Gerry Adams 8)



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 3:46 pm

Joker wrote:
it was during the times of tribes in Irleand. Sure it wasn't a self-governing nation but they still got along just fine.


So you want to go back to the time of warring tribes?! And this is how long ago?! Before the Normans invaded Ireland in the middle of the 12th century, Vikings were making raids on the island and settled Dublin.



Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 3:49 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
it was during the times of tribes in Irleand. Sure it wasn't a self-governing nation but they still got along just fine.


So you want to go back to the time of warring tribes?! And this is how long ago?! Before the Normans invaded Ireland in the middle of the 12th century, Vikings were making raids on the island and settled Dublin.


That is true but they never took the Irish culture language religion and history from them now did they :wink:



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 3:51 pm

Joker wrote:
That is true but they never took the Irish culture language religion and history from them now did they :wink:


Neither did we. Irish culture, language and history is flourishing in Ireland. The Irish have known much of oppression and it is right that most of Ireland won its independence from Britain. However, there was a large minority, mainly in the north-east of the island, that did not want to be ruled from Dublin. The period of atrocities by the British (and the counter-atrocities made by rebels) is long, long ago now. Continuing to dwell on it does no-one in Ireland any good.



Joker
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02 Jul 2012, 3:53 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
That is true but they never took the Irish culture language religion and history from them now did they :wink:


Neither did we. Irish culture, language and history is flourishing in Ireland. The Irish have known much of oppression - real oppression, that is - and it is right that most of Ireland won its independence from Britain. However, there was a large minority, mainly in the north-east of the island, that did not want to be ruled from Dublin.


Yes that is true it is the east side of the Island. That wanted that which was stupid. And I know a lot about Irish History btw.



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 3:55 pm

Joker wrote:
That wanted that which was stupid.


In fact, it was very wise for them given the discrimination and attacks on their co-religionists who stayed behind in the Irish Free State. Protestants numbered 10% at the time of independence; now they number 2%. Many fled the newly-independent IFS and went to the newly-created Northern Ireland or to Britain.



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02 Jul 2012, 3:59 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
That wanted that which was stupid.


In fact, it was very wise for them given the discrimination and attacks on their co-religionists who stayed behind in the Irish Free State. Protestants numbered 10% at the time of independence; now they number 2%. Many fled the newly-independent IFS and went to the newly-created Northern Ireland or to Britain.


I know that but plenty of countries., Have dealt with discriminaton but are united. Like United States Of America. Should we split in two because of one group. Disriminating against another group?



Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 4:00 pm

Joker wrote:
Go on (youtube) you will find a lot of people, that live in Ireland! that support Sinn Fein' and Gerry Adams 8)


I know about these people. What I mean is that voting SF won't help bring about a UI because it's a sectarian, winner-takes-all, exclusive form of nationalism which is alienating and frightening to Ulster Protestants. Unionists in Northern Ireland have a deep-seated hatred for Sinn Féin. Voting for Sinn Féin (or the DUP) in NI can be considered a tribalistic exercise.



Last edited by Tequila on 02 Jul 2012, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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02 Jul 2012, 4:02 pm

Joker wrote:
[Have dealt with discriminaton but are united. Like United States Of America. Should we split in two because of one group. Disriminating against another group?


You aren't taking into account that Unionists wanted to remain with Britain and that they mainly lived in the North-East of the island. The north-east was also the main industrial base in Ireland, similar to a city like Glasgow in Scotland if you like. My point was that Unionists campaigned on the slogan that "Home Rule is Rome Rule". And in fact, they more or less turned out to be right, because the IFS became a Gaelic state dominated by Roman Catholicism where Protestants were not welcome. Similar happened in Northern Ireland with Catholics.



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02 Jul 2012, 4:04 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
Go on (youtube) you will find a lot of people, that live in Ireland! that support Sinn Fein' and Gerry Adams 8)


I know about these people. What I mean is that voting SF won't help bring about a UI because it's a sectarian, winner-takes-all, exclusive form of nationalism which is alienating and frightening to Ulster Protestants. Unionists in Northern Ireland have a deep-seated hatred for Sinn Féin. Voting for Sinn Féin (or the DUP) in NI can be considered a tribalistic exercise.


Why hate Irish Nationalists though. A united Ireland is what they want. SF has plenty of support. But not enough to win for a united Irleand. I still have hope that it will happen. Some time in my life time. What's so wrong with a United Irleand?



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02 Jul 2012, 4:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
[Have dealt with discriminaton but are united. Like United States Of America. Should we split in two because of one group. Disriminating against another group?


You aren't taking into account that Unionists wanted to remain with Britain and that they mainly lived in the North-East of the island. The north-east was also the main industrial base in Ireland, similar to a city like Glasgow in Scotland if you like. My point was that Unionists campaigned on the slogan that "Home Rule is Rome Rule". And in fact, they more or less turned out to be right, because the IFS became a Gaelic state dominated by Roman Catholicism where Protestants were not welcome. Similar happened in Northern Ireland with Catholics.


Then it's a religious issue. In American proestants are the largest. I no that Proestants and Catholics. Don't have the same political views. But if they think those issues will be a problem now. Their not being realistic if it was a UI. Not saying their wouldn't be a proestant, and catholic, fight going on. Just sayin just because a religon dominates a country. That doesn't mean other religious people will suffer.