Page 6 of 8 [ 121 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

spongy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,055
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave

10 Jul 2012, 1:22 am

Vigilans wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Joker has been banned from WP because of his persistent trolling and disruptive behaviour.


THANK YOU.
+1

I've been seeing some more mod presence lately. It's good to know PPR is being cleaned up...


I sometimes think this subforum could probably use its own dedicated moderator or some lesser, special rank created for the purpose


There was a person that tried to help us on this section a little and Im not sure what happened with him.
It turned out to be quite a good experiment so maybe we should consider doing something similar.

As for my colleague: he seems fairly happy with his relationship with god at the moment but I guess things can change at anytime with the right/wrong circumstances



enrico_dandolo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 866

10 Jul 2012, 3:13 am

Vigilans wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
On the video...

Counter-argument 4 is actually a fallacy. Basically, it says "the human eye is less complex than that of the horned owl. therefore God can't have created either because humans are his children, and would not have favored other species". This doesn't dress the issue of complexity itself.


I would not say that is the center of that counter-argument. They do elaborate quite well on the different types of more primitive sensors that are analogues to the various stages in ocular evolution. That last part about the eyes of octopi and horned owls seem more to have been a jab at the Christian view of the inherent superiority of man to all animals as God's "chosen". Biologically this is obviously not true

I don't know. I didn't feel like it worked well.

Part of the strength of "irreducible complexity" is probably a consequence of how life forms are studied in school. In my biology classes, I was exposed mainly to single cells on the one hand, then fully formed animals or plants on the other. Comparing humans to amoebae makes a bit of a step. Even though I understand or assume that there was something in the middle, my unlearned mind has a more difficult time comprehending the full process.

Of course, in the end, I agree with them, but I don't think this particular rebuttal was very effective. I'm all for jabs on Christians, but I think it gets too much emphasis in this argument.



Shatbat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,791
Location: Where two great rivers meet

10 Jul 2012, 6:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Joker has been banned from WP because of his persistent trolling and disruptive behaviour.


He'll be back, don't you worry :P


I actually liked the guy. :(

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So did I :lol:.

But still, he had it coming.


_________________
To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. - Winston Churchill


Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 65,512
Location: Over there

10 Jul 2012, 4:14 pm

As discussion of banned members and why they were banned is prohibited - even in PPR - it should really be left to rest now.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Rocky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,074
Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak

10 Jul 2012, 5:33 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:

Part of the strength of "irreducible complexity" is probably a consequence of how life forms are studied in school. In my biology classes, I was exposed mainly to single cells on the one hand, then fully formed animals or plants on the other. Comparing humans to amoebae makes a bit of a step. Even though I understand or assume that there was something in the middle, my unlearned mind has a more difficult time comprehending the full process.

.


I did a quick search and found this experiment to show how the transition from single cell to multi-cellular life can be demonstrated in the lab. Link follows: Link

I just found an even more relevant YouTube clip from the BBC.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q71DWYJD-dI[/youtube]

You can skip to about the three minute mark if you want.

And here is a link to the Wikipedia article about archaea: Link

I was just reading the "Timeline of Evolution" on Wikipedia. It includes the following: "Simple multicellular organisms evolve, mostly consisting of cell colonies of limited complexity. First multicellular red algae evolve." This occurred at around 1200Ma. I would guess these colonies formed due to the advantages of symbiotic cooperation.


_________________
"Reality is not made of if. Reality is made of is."
-Author prefers to be anonymous.


Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

10 Jul 2012, 7:08 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1xUiuZvUuw[/youtube]

The way this creationist describes it- that science is a "Biblical mandate" to help take care of the Earth, and that scripture holds precedence, perhaps more accurately, "veto" over any evidence that is contradictory- is very illuminating on the utterly non-scientific nature of creationism.

It is also a typical insinuation made by many types of theists where the creationist questions the motivations of non-theistic scientists. It is virtually the same thought process that leads some theists to use the "if you don't believe in God you have no morals" device


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

10 Jul 2012, 7:17 pm

Vigilans wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1xUiuZvUuw[/youtube]

The way this creationist describes it- that science is a "Biblical mandate" to help take care of the Earth, and that scripture holds precedence, perhaps more accurately, "veto" over any evidence that is contradictory- is very illuminating on the utterly non-scientific nature of creationism.

It is also a typical insinuation made by many types of theists where the creationist questions the motivations of non-theistic scientists. It is virtually the same thought process that leads some theists to use the "if you don't believe in God you have no morals" device


After watching that creationist gobbledygook, I am at a loss for words - especially since that one nut is an astrophysicist.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Alfonso12345
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 431
Location: Somewhere in the United States

10 Jul 2012, 7:43 pm

Vigilans wrote:
The way this creationist describes it- that science is a "Biblical mandate" to help take care of the Earth, and that scripture holds precedence, perhaps more accurately, "veto" over any evidence that is contradictory- is very illuminating on the utterly non-scientific nature of creationism.


I would have thought that if the world really had been created by a god in 6 days, there would not have been any evidence that could contradict it. There would be lots of evidence supporting creationism and absolutely none supporting evolution, but it's the exact opposite. It seems evidence is not enough to break strong faith.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

10 Jul 2012, 9:00 pm

Alfonso12345 wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
The way this creationist describes it- that science is a "Biblical mandate" to help take care of the Earth, and that scripture holds precedence, perhaps more accurately, "veto" over any evidence that is contradictory- is very illuminating on the utterly non-scientific nature of creationism.


I would have thought that if the world really had been created by a god in 6 days, there would not have been any evidence that could contradict it. There would be lots of evidence supporting creationism and absolutely none supporting evolution, but it's the exact opposite. It seems evidence is not enough to break strong faith.


Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


10 Jul 2012, 10:38 pm

Interesting arguements though I do not agree with them.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

10 Jul 2012, 10:45 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


It was the Devil who planted all the fossils.

ruveyn



10 Jul 2012, 10:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:

Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


It was the Devil who planted all the fossils.

ruveyn


We Russian do not call Lucifer a Devil' we view him as a fallen angel.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

10 Jul 2012, 10:50 pm

Vladimir wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:

Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


It was the Devil who planted all the fossils.

ruveyn


We Russian do not call Lucifer a Devil' we view him as a fallen angel.


How do Russians come to believe all this nonsense? I was under the impression that Russians had a lot of common sense. In order to survive Stalin one need a lot of both luck and common sense. God sure was not on the side of Russia in the 20 th century.

ruveyn



10 Jul 2012, 10:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vladimir wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:

Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


It was the Devil who planted all the fossils.

ruveyn


We Russian do not call Lucifer a Devil' we view him as a fallen angel.


How do Russians come to believe all this nonsense? I was under the impression that Russians had a lot of common sense. In order to survive Stalin one need a lot of both luck and common sense. God sure was not on the side of Russia in the 20 th century.

ruveyn


Their are a lot of Russian Orthodox in my country. The Orthodox Church is the largest church and the largest religion in Russia. Stalin was the devil in my opinon.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

10 Jul 2012, 10:54 pm

Vladimir wrote:
[

Their are a lot of Russian Orthodox in my country. The Orthodox Church is the largest church and the largest religion in Russia. Stalin was the devil in my opinon.


Also in mine. Sookin Sihn comes to mind. What a piece of work that Groozhian thug was. If Stalin had lived a few more years he would have pulled off a Pogram that would have made Kyrstalnacht look like a pink tea party.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

10 Jul 2012, 10:55 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vladimir wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:

Some of them will say that contradictions are "put there" to test people's faith


It was the Devil who planted all the fossils.

ruveyn


We Russian do not call Lucifer a Devil' we view him as a fallen angel.


How do Russians come to believe all this nonsense? I was under the impression that Russians had a lot of common sense. In order to survive Stalin one need a lot of both luck and common sense. God sure was not on the side of Russia in the 20 th century.

ruveyn


Oh, I don't know. Maybe God had activated the syphilis and Parkinson's disease in Hitler at the right time in order to make him make all the wrong decisions in the Soviet Union.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer