Does not believing in God make one a sinner?
17 Aug 2012, 1:24 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
wouldn't trying to get saved also be self serving?
This calvinism thing just makes no sense to me.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
17 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm
JakobVirgil wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
wouldn't trying to get saved also be self serving?
This calvinism thing just makes no sense to me.
_________________
"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley
17 Aug 2012, 3:01 pm
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
wouldn't trying to get saved also be self serving?
This calvinism thing just makes no sense to me.
Many of us do good because it is right to, just like you. The main difference, I would say, is that we defined what is good as what it is that God wants us to do. While I use my knowledge of God to help understand what is good and wrong, my motivations for doing good are not simply to get on God's good side.
In fact, the Bible makes it clear that none of us are good enough to be saved by our actions, because we have all sinned. (Romans 3:23 is the most clear example, but it's alluded to many times in the new testament)
I know of the Christians you speak of, and I won't deny that they exist. However, if a person is doing good to get into heaven, it's quite possible that they also believe that they deserve to get into heaven based on the good they have done - a boastful attitude that can reach a point where it is, in itself, sinful. Asking for forgiveness is about more than just saying we knew that we did something wrong - it's about recognizing that we have fallen short and asking for mercy. It's about recognizing that, on their own, those good actions will never be good enough.
God doesn't want us to just do good to get into heaven. He wants us to do good out of a love and kindness - both towards Him and towards other people.
Alfonso12345
Velociraptor
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Age:22
Posts: 422
Location: Somewhere in the United States
21 Aug 2012, 10:59 pm
Canaspie wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
wouldn't trying to get saved also be self serving?
This calvinism thing just makes no sense to me.
Many of us do good because it is right to, just like you. The main difference, I would say, is that we defined what is good as what it is that God wants us to do. While I use my knowledge of God to help understand what is good and wrong, my motivations for doing good are not simply to get on God's good side.
In fact, the Bible makes it clear that none of us are good enough to be saved by our actions, because we have all sinned. (Romans 3:23 is the most clear example, but it's alluded to many times in the new testament)
I know of the Christians you speak of, and I won't deny that they exist. However, if a person is doing good to get into heaven, it's quite possible that they also believe that they deserve to get into heaven based on the good they have done - a boastful attitude that can reach a point where it is, in itself, sinful. Asking for forgiveness is about more than just saying we knew that we did something wrong - it's about recognizing that we have fallen short and asking for mercy. It's about recognizing that, on their own, those good actions will never be good enough.
God doesn't want us to just do good to get into heaven. He wants us to do good out of a love and kindness - both towards Him and towards other people.
I honestly don't think your god cares about love and kindness if it exists, considering the fact it has temper tantrums for not being worshiped and tortures people forever because it made them so flawed that they could do evil, knowing every evil act everyone would do, making it directly responsible for every evil thing people have ever done in history.
The fact that this god has also broken his own commandments any time he felt like it, mostly because people didn't serve him, makes it a hypocrite if it exists. Based on how flawed your god is, it leads me to the conclusion that it is either a man-made invention, is a demon or extra-terrestrial messing with the heads of people who have worshiped it, or narcissism equals holiness because the creator of everything is a narcissistic tyrant that created worshipers because it didn't feel satisfied loving itself for all eternity.
OP, the monotheistic religions do say that you should have faith in their god and not believe in any others or no gods because if you don't serve their gods, you are evil, so I would say according to their holy books, not believing in their gods would be very sinful.
22 Aug 2012, 1:57 am
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
Somehow, I have a sneaky suspicion that IF God does indeed exist, he does not allow those who do evil to escape justice by exploiting Christ's atonement.
22 Aug 2012, 8:42 am
AspieRogue wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
Somehow, I have a sneaky suspicion that IF God does indeed exist, he does not allow those who do evil to escape justice by exploiting Christ's atonement.
Escape justice? God doesn't necessarily free you from the consequences of your actions. It seems Susan Atkins was a long-time believer during her imprisonment, but no amount of faith garnered her so much as a compassionate release at the end of her life.
All it means is that if there is hope in the hereafter even for someone like Susan Atkins, that God can forgive her even when no one else can, then there is hope for anyone who wants it. All you have to do is believe that Jesus through His sacrifice is powerful enough to save you.
22 Aug 2012, 9:52 am
AngelRho wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
My husband and I were friends with this guy who thinks it would be easier to get into heaven (if it exists) for a mass murderer, with no respect for others, who believes in God than for a good person, who is kind, caring and has never done any harm to anyone or anything, but does not believe in God. His belief is that God sees the non-believing as a worse sin than the mass murder. Sounds pretty vindictive and childish of Him. After the evening he told us this, I don't think we arranged to meet up again.
Sounds like bad information to me.
Yes, if you were a mass murderer but accept Christ's atonement, you'll go to heaven.
The thing is, though, that someone who accepts Christ is made a new person who ought to expect a dramatic change in outward behavior to reflect the new person on the inside. That doesn't mean a murderer can escape the earthly consequences of being brought to justice and possibly be put to death. But it ought to put an end to his destructive behavior and maybe even he'll come forth and confess his crimes.
Moreover, someone with violent tendencies can let God deal with his rage such that he turn away from committing a violent crime in the first place.
According to the Christian worldview, there is no such thing as a good person, so all people are born into a sinful nature that separates them from God. Without acknowledging that, confessing and turning away from sin, and without believing in Christ, there can be no remission of sins. A Christian should desire to do good deeds to glorify God. A non-believer can do all the good in the world, but ultimately the motives for doing good are self-seeking.
sounds self-serving to me. I don't need a reward to be a good person.
Somehow, I have a sneaky suspicion that IF God does indeed exist, he does not allow those who do evil to escape justice by exploiting Christ's atonement.
Escape justice? God doesn't necessarily free you from the consequences of your actions. It seems Susan Atkins was a long-time believer during her imprisonment, but no amount of faith garnered her so much as a compassionate release at the end of her life.
All it means is that if there is hope in the hereafter even for someone like Susan Atkins, that God can forgive her even when no one else can, then there is hope for anyone who wants it. All you have to do is believe that Jesus through His sacrifice is powerful enough to save you.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
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