Are the Muslims really the biggest threat . . .

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Do you want to know what happens in Britain when you burn a U.S., UK or any other flag? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Try publicly burning a Quran though, and you will be imprisoned. (The same doesn't apply to the Bible.)

Yah, so that means we should kill them all?
They don't get a chance to grow and learn like your government and my government?

I don't know how on Earth you come to that conclusion as to where I've ever said that. Oh yes, that's right. I didn't.

My major beef really is to do with the political class (along with their fellow travellers) for assisting and abetting the spread of Islam in the West and their policies. I want this sorted out peacefully, without bloodshed.

Last edited by Tequila on 07 Sep 2012, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

You guys have got to form a Republic and have something like the First Amendment protect unpopular speech or modes of expression.

By the way, is public book burning permitted by your fire laws?

ruveyn

There's nothing to suggest in the news stories that he was actually done for that. He was done for "religiously-aggravated harassment" (whatever that is in this case) and theft of the Quran (which isn't on, whichever way you cut it).

Burning something that is not one's own property is a no no.

But to the general problem. You guys have a rather prickly sub population i.e. the Muslims who are not well integrated into British society. Burning a Q'ran in your neck of the woods is really fomenting a riot and that is probably why you have such a law. Unfortunate.

In the U.S. we are luckier. Most of the Muslims in the U.S. are reasonably well integrated into American society. They might not be loved, but they are not routinely harassed or treated as parihias. And the only people who are burning pages from the Q'ran publicly are people from strange organizations like the Westboro Baptist Church who make a point of beings pains in the ass.

It seems that we in the U.S. have lucked out better than you folks in Britain in this regard.

The English, historically have not done well in assimilating some foreign groups. For example, in England, Jews were kicked out and were not re-welcomed until the time of Oliver Cromwell. I understand that during the Great War many German immigrants who were legal subjects in Britain were treated less than well. You guys got rid of slavery early but you did not do will in assimilation.

ruveyn

Try burning a bible in front of a bunch of Christians or Catholics and your not likely to leave there in one piece.


Islam has as much right to be practiced by anyone who wish's in the west as Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism and so on does in the east.

I love how you have no problem with spreading Christianity to Muslims, yet fight so hard to keep their religion from spreading.
How it disgusts you when a Muslim harasses someone for their religion or lack there of, but complete disregard when they are harassed for their religion.

Its just so amazingly sensible.

Do it in England and I guarantee they'll just tut and call you a knobhead. Physical violence would never enter their heads.

Burn a Quran in front of Muslims and they'll go for your head.

Back that up empirically. You are projecting again.

The Westboro Baptist Church, a rather unpleasant group, has done outrageous things and have yet to be attacked in public with open violence (fists, clubs, guns etc.). They are despised (and they should be) but they are yet to be physically attacked, Their buildings have not be set afire.

Most people would not do what you suggest because they are too polite to do so.

Burning a bible publicly borders on fomenting a riot. It is not just burning paper. It is provoking a violent response. People have carried posters in public demonstrations denigrating Christians. This has generally not been met with a violent response. Public bill boards with ads have been set up putting down Christian beliefs but no violence has ensued.

Back a ways, the motion picture The Last Temptation of Christ was picketed and demonstrated (at several theaters) by Catholic demonstrators, but no violence came of it. On the other hand, when Salman Rushdie's book insulting the Prophet (PBUH) was published and sold, several bookstores received outright explicit threats of violence and destruction. My wife worked at Waldenbooks at the time and her store received written and telephoned threats. That did not stop the book from going on sale, by the way. Even so, there were very few incidents of violence concerning Rushdie's book

We are a little better in the U.S. than they are in Pakistan.

ruveyn

Yes, and might that be because, like American Christians they did not grow up in a British environment and therefor logically respond differently to how a British born and raised person would?


I don't think there are any statistics on assault or harassment based on desecration of bibles.
I do however know that I have been around some religious people who I wouldn't have so much as bent a bible around.
We are sometimes better at controlling ourselves, and the British more so.
It is a product of the environment we were raised in.
Prejudices, practices and fears are not dispelled quickly, they usually take generations to properly and completely acclimate to a new environment.

Proof please (specifically that burning the Bible in an inflammatory way won't get you imprisoned).


Again, I think that depends on the individual, as you well know. Generally the middle classes would be less likely to get to violence, whereas practising working class members of both religions would be more likely to. The thing is that there aren't many practising working class Christians in this country, whereas probably a majority of Muslims are working class. I can think of Christians who would need restraining if I drew their attention to the fact that I was burning a Bible, I can think of Muslims who would restrain themselves.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k63fRBmYevE[/youtube]



And you're also forgetting that the Bible isn't held in nearly as much reverence to Christians as the Quran is among Muslims.

What about the EDL? Most of them have never set inside a church in their life but they're up for a ruck.



What sort of people are they like? EDL types?

That would be the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan?

If you go to a Marilyn Manson concert then you know you are going to get stuff like that, and I seem to remember there being quite a fuss about that. It isn't the same as burning the Quran in the street.

Some Christians (admittedly more in America and Africa than here) do hold the Bible in a similar regard to how Muslims in Pakistan and so forth hold the Quran. I think a lot of Christians in this country would value it more as a highly prized personal possession than a divine object, but a lot of people will go ape s**t crazy if you burn their favourite things- I know I would.

Your point about the EDL seems to be undermining your argument more than it is undermining mine I reckon most of these people would complain about the hypocrisy more than the gesture itself.

The people who would get genuinely angry about a Bible being burned (or at least I think they would from how I know them) aren't EDL types- at least around here EDL types think "religion is stoooooooopid, of course there's no god lol"- but rather "happy clappy" Christians from liberal churches who have slight anger management problems.

I'm more afraid of multinational-corporations undermining democracy so much that they finally turn the strong arm of military industrial complex on us as they've done for years in the Middle East and South America. If we want terrorism to stop, we need to not give them a reason for revenge against us. I'm not really that afraid of goat herders in Afghanistan to be honest.