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Are Muslims the Biggest threat to the modern world?
Yes 24%  24%  [ 12 ]
No 76%  76%  [ 38 ]
Total votes : 50

Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:40 pm

thomas81 wrote:
It might shock and astonish you to learn that I don't hail from an Irish nationalist background.


I knew that already.

That your flag then? I'd change it if I were you - looks a bit Ivorian to me.



thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:41 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
It might shock and astonish you to learn that I don't hail from an Irish nationalist background.


I knew that already.

That your flag then? I'd change it if I were you - looks a bit Ivorian to me.


What flag?



Hopper
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04 Sep 2012, 5:41 pm

Tequila wrote:
Hopper wrote:
Whenever I see the Union Flag, I think of dogshit.


Luckily, I can rise above the temptation to make inflammatory statements about people's national flags.


But not their religions? It's a f*****g FLAG, ffs. I'm not sure it should matter, but being a Briton, it's my flag, too.



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04 Sep 2012, 5:42 pm

I hate the way some extremists have tried to "reclaim" the Union Flag and St George's Cross. They should simply be symbols of the countries they represent, not used to further sick ideologies. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the flag.

Having said that, I don't particularly like the design of the Union Flag (St Patrick's Cross is done badly, and there's no representation of Wales), but that's a separate issue.



Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:44 pm

thomas81 wrote:
What flag?


Perhaps they stole it.

Hopper wrote:
But not their religions? It's a f***ing FLAG, ffs. I'm not sure it should matter, but being a Briton, it's my flag, too.


Worship your God if you like, just don't bring me into it, don't demand entrance to this country if you're not a national (though really this is the government's fault), don't commit crimes in the name of it (again the government's fault for not applying the law fairly) and don't ask for special treatment. Not much to ask.

You happy about not being included on it separately?



Last edited by Tequila on 04 Sep 2012, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:44 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
I hate the way some extremists have tried to "reclaim" the Union Flag and St George's Cross. They should simply be symbols of the countries they represent, not used to further sick ideologies. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the flag.

Having said that, I don't particularly like the design of the Union Flag (St Patrick's Cross is done badly, and there's no representation of Wales), but that's a separate issue.


If you ask me, the Union is between the wrong countries.

I'd rather see a Union between the celtic countries...Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Mann, Wales, Cornwall...Possibly Britanny and Basque if they want in.

England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.



Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:45 pm

thomas81 wrote:
England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.


We could always kick NI out of the UK and let the Republic come back in. ;)



thomas81
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04 Sep 2012, 5:49 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
England can eff off and do its own thing. Bloody WASP foreigners.


We could always kick NI out of the UK and let the Republic come back in. ;)


NI shouldnt even have been created in the first place. It was artifically gerrymandered by its masters in London as a means of preserving the Unionist hegemony in the 6 counties. It has no democratic pretext at all.



Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 5:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:
NI shouldnt even have been created in the first place. It was artifically gerrymandered by its masters in London as a means of preserving the Unionist hegemony in the 6 counties. It has no democratic pretext at all.


No-one was alive in British Northern Ireland when these events took place. Go on, trot out the 800 years line whilst you're at it.

Hold a border poll tomorrow, next week, next year or in ten years for me. I suspect it will show a considerable majority of Northern Irish people (most Protestants and a considerable portion of Catholics) wanting to remain within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.



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04 Sep 2012, 5:56 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
NI shouldnt even have been created in the first place. It was artifically gerrymandered by its masters in London as a means of preserving the Unionist hegemony in the 6 counties. It has no democratic pretext at all.


No-one was alive in British Northern Ireland when these events took place.

No one in Northern Ireland was alive in 1922?
Tequila wrote:
Go on, trot out the 800 years line whilst you're at it.

I wasn't planning to.
Tequila wrote:
Hold a border poll tomorrow, next week, next year or in ten years for me. I suspect it will show a considerable majority of Northern Irish people (most Protestants and a considerable portion of Catholics) wanting to remain within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I don't know what you're ranting about. My point is that prior to 1922, Northern Ireland as an entity never existed. No referendum was held then, or since. Its therefore meaningless to hold a supposed democratic referendum in a political entity that held no democratic basis behind its very existance.

Besides which we're going off the beaten track on the issue of Islamic extremism.



Last edited by thomas81 on 04 Sep 2012, 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hopper
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04 Sep 2012, 5:57 pm

Tequila wrote:
Worship your God if you like, just don't bring me into it, don't demand entrance to this country if you're not a national (though really this is the government's fault), don't commit crimes in the name of it (again the government's fault for not applying the law fairly) and don't ask for special treatment. Not much to ask.

You happy about not being included on it separately?


You do talk arse.

I live in Wales, but I'm not Welsh. I quite like the flag, though, cos it's got a dragon on it. A f*****g dragon.

I was born in Spain to English parents, grew up in Birmingham, my Grandparents (maternal ones - single mother) were Scottish and Scots-Irish. Grew up under Thatcher, who never lost an opportunity to parade the flag whilst slandering my family, and the aforementioned NF incidents. Perpetual 'I don't get it' outsiderness of AS. Mix it up and it'll make Nationalism a nonsense.

Bill Hicks has an interesting idea for flags:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKy-xPq178[/youtube]



Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

thomas81 wrote:
No one was in Northern Ireland was alive in 1922?


Very few in NI today were alive in Northern Ireland in 1922. Pretty much no-one would remember the state's foundation. You'd have to be about 100 to remember the state's foundation in 1921 if you were ten years old.

thomas81 wrote:
I don't know what you're ranting about. My point is that prior to 1922, Northern Ireland as an entity never existed. Its therefore meaningless to hold a supposed democratic referendum in a political entity that held no democratic basis behind its very existance.


You don't agree that the Unionists had the right to opt out of Irish Home Rule, even though they held a majority in the north-east of the island?

I've discussed this topic with too many people too many times. Carson should have been Prime Minister of NI (although he didn't want to be) and not the sectarian idiots they had post-1921. The Ulster Unionists' failure to heed his advice not to mistreat Catholics led to many, many problems later on as we all know.



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04 Sep 2012, 6:03 pm

Tequila wrote:

You don't agree that the Unionists had the right to opt out of Irish Home Rule, even though they held a majority in the north-east of the island?

I've discussed this topic with too many people too many times. Carson should have been Prime Minister of NI and not the sectarian idiots they had post-1921.


The only reason they 'opted out' was to create a artificial dividing line between themselves and the supposed inferior Irish. There was no credible cultural distinction and was essentially a smokescreen simply to mantain Britains imperialist agenda on this island.

In short it was an awful precedence for which to start a country.



Tequila
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04 Sep 2012, 6:05 pm

thomas81 wrote:
The only reason they 'opted out' was to create a artificial dividing line between themselves and the supposed inferior Irish. There was no credible cultural distinction and was essentially a smokescreen simply to mantain Britains imperialist agenda pn this island.


Hardly - it was the Unionists' desire to remain in the UK that led to the birth of Northern Ireland. Britain's hands were tied really. I bet that without the presence of the Unionists, they would have given the entire island home rule (and eventual independence).

They did a bad job of partition though.



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04 Sep 2012, 6:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The only reason they 'opted out' was to create a artificial dividing line between themselves and the supposed inferior Irish. There was no credible cultural distinction and was essentially a smokescreen simply to mantain Britains imperialist agenda pn this island.


Hardly - it was the Unionists' desire to remain in the UK that led to the birth of Northern Ireland. Britain's hands were tied really. I bet that without the presence of the Unionists, they would have given the entire island home rule (and eventual independence).

They did a bad job of partition though.


The basis for their desire is precisely their mistaken belief that they are intrinsically socially and culturally superior to the rest of Ireland. England has a lot to answer for in this respect because they authored much of the hibernophobic material in the popular press during the gentrification of the island. Considering the treasures and resources Britain has invested in mantaining a presence here, something tells me there is more at stake than the feelings of 750 000 people who aren't even in a position to elect figures into Westminster.