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ArrantPariah
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11 Nov 2012, 9:48 am

If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.



adb
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11 Nov 2012, 10:07 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.

Jobs require money. The government doesn't produce money (or wealth), it merely reallocates it. Any job the government "creates" is only by removing the ability for a business to create a job.



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11 Nov 2012, 10:18 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.


What if they don't want to work in the public sector?


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11 Nov 2012, 10:38 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.
What if they don't want to work in the public sector?

What if they don't want to accept the only jobs that are offered to them?


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ruveyn
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11 Nov 2012, 10:50 am

Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.
What if they don't want to work in the public sector?

What if they don't want to accept the only jobs that are offered to them?


If they are able to work and will not except employment (even employment of last resort) then they should be permitted to starve.

Those that do not work (but are able to work) neither shall they eat.

For the disabled there should be assistance both private and public. Victims of ill fortune (rather than of their own laziness or perversity) should be supported. Why? Because misfortune can happen to any of us. A certain degree of social solidarity is the best insurance policy against unsought misfortune.

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ArrantPariah
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11 Nov 2012, 10:58 am

adb wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.

Jobs require money. The government doesn't produce money (or wealth), it merely reallocates it. Any job the government "creates" is only by removing the ability for a business to create a job.


The government produces quite a lot of public wealth. National Highway System, anyone?

The National Highway System actually enhanced the ability of businesses to create jobs. Where would the trucking business be without it?



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11 Nov 2012, 11:04 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
adb wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.

Jobs require money. The government doesn't produce money (or wealth), it merely reallocates it. Any job the government "creates" is only by removing the ability for a business to create a job.


The government produces quite a lot of public wealth. National Highway System, anyone?

?


Funded by taxes collected by force and bonds that can only be repaid by taxing citizens and firms at gunpoint. The national highway system was front-end capitalized by loot.

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ArrantPariah
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11 Nov 2012, 11:08 am

That is absolutely correct. But, it still facilitated job creation by private firms. And, it is still public wealth.



ruveyn
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11 Nov 2012, 11:10 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
That is absolutely correct. But, it still facilitated job creation by private firms. And, it is still public wealth.


Paid for by private citizens whether they wanted to or not.

If a private party ever did what the government does, on a daily basis, he would by lynched by his disgruntled victims toot sweet. When a private party is a criminal we throw him in jail. When a government does the same thing we praise it for its compassion.

Utter madness!

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11 Nov 2012, 11:16 am

And now we get back to square definitions. Who is really boycotting the interstate highways, ruveyn? Where are the people who are refusing to drive on them out of sheer principle? Nowhere.



ArrantPariah
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11 Nov 2012, 11:47 am

Aren't the roads largely financed through gasoline taxes, anyway? So, drivers do end up paying for the roads upon which they travel?

The Libertarian solution would be to auction the roads off to private investors, who would maintain the roads with money collected from tolls. This may end up being less efficient that letting the government take care of the roads, but, for the Libertarian, efficiency is not the issue--the government should do absolutely nothing to support the nation's general welfare. If the economy collapses as the roads fall apart, then so be it. As long as I can smoke my marijuana, then so what?



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11 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
marshall wrote:
The whole "Unions are the Enemy" thing seems to be a ploy. The real solution is places like China and India need to unionize in order to raise wages and reduce their trade surplus. If labor was 100% mobile like it should be in an ideal capitalist model, Chinese and Indian workers would demand much higher wages. Either they go up or we go down. If the west goes down it will send a shock the puts the entire world into a depression. European austerity is already dragging the world down.


Don't peddle that horseshit at me. I worked in a union shop, I know how those assholes operate. They couldn't give two shits less about the people they represent. They make wages outrageously high because they have a legal mandate they bought with kickbacks to take a percentage of dues without employee say. If push comes to shove in a union shop, low wage earners are the first on the chopping block to keep the higher wage earners safe. It's like f***ing human sacrifice in a monetary sense. And don't get me started on how unions employ mafiosi style tactics against their own members to force them to do what the union wants.


Go work for Chinese wages. That's the libertarian solution.



ruveyn
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11 Nov 2012, 12:31 pm

marshall wrote:

Go work for Chinese wages. That's the libertarian solution.


You would justify criminal behavior?

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11 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm

What Republican office holders (and candidates) need to do is start spending more time in their respective electorates finding out what their constituents actual concerns are and not just quoting the party line. Of course, practicality and constitutional legality have to be taken into account.
Same could be said for the Democrats.


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marshall
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11 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm

adb wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
If the objective is to create jobs purely for the sake of creating jobs, to keep people otherwise occupied and off the streets: this is something that the government can do.

Jobs require money. The government doesn't produce money (or wealth), it merely reallocates it. Any job the government "creates" is only by removing the ability for a business to create a job.

This is such a lie I get so sick of hearing. People create wealth by doing things that benefit themselves and others, not accumulating money and hoarding it away like squirrels. When people are paid to do something productive they are "creating wealth" with their productivity. They can be paid by anyone, including government. They don't have to be working in the "private sector" for a bunch of random shareholders' personal profit. Government needs to take on certain productive activities that the private sector is simply uninterested in dealing with (likely because they don't see any immediate profit they can extract from it).

When there are not enough jobs to go around the fundamental problem is people are not sharing. You b***h and moan if people get welfare with no work requirement, you b***h and moan if government makes them work for their "welfare" instead by creating a job the private hoarders are unable or unwilling to create "for profit". There's simply no way to win with you! You sound like Maria Antoniette "Let Them Eat Cake!! !". I can only conclude that you want the "losers" who can't find work to starve since there is no obligation to anyone to prevent such a situation. I don't see how you can fault people for not wanting to live in your lovely world.