Where the GOP goes from here

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It was not always thus. Back in the 19th century Robert Ingersoll (or Illinois) was a major Republican player. He was politely called The Great Agnostic, but in reality he was an atheist. Yes! There was a time when there were atheist Republicans.

ruveyn

Yes, that's all very good but that is not the truth of the job creators argument. To break it down, the argument asserts that more money will always necessarily lead to more jobs. Why? All of what you said may be why but I still assert that there is free will and that owners may do anything that they please with that money. Until you have data that proves that that is overcome, then I reserve the choice to think like this.

There are many Christian Democrats, too; especially in California. Christians in the red states don't seem to like them much, though.

Many of them are Mormons and Catholics as well. And the "Republican Bible" (better known as Atlas Shrugged) was written by an atheist.

Last edited by Tim_Tex on 10 Nov 2012, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not counting the Libertarian Party, the libertarian ideal is associated more with the GOP than the Democrats.

Why aren't conservatives honest then? Tell it like it is. We need to drastically lower our standard of living to compete with the developing world. We can't afford a social safety net for the poor, disabled, and elderly so we have to go old school. If you can't make a living on your own you have the freedom to either beg or starve. I see absolutely no evidence that cutting taxes even more for the wealthy is going to do jack s**t except to put us in deeper debt. In Europe forced austerity measures have not only shrunk government outlays, but private sector GDP as well, deepening the recession and lowering revenues. If the answer is there is no choice but to drastically lower our standard of living then stop promising that tax cuts and deficit reductions are going to bring back the good old days. It simply isn't going to happen. The good old days are not coming back. American multinational corporations who control global capital could care less about American citizens and will not move jobs back if it means paying a penny more.

They will hoard it in the stock market or invest it overseas.

I can't understand how people don't want tax cuts; so you'd rather give your money to the government so they can waste it and put the entire country in debt then keep it for yourself and "waste" it. Such as using it to invest in a business. Or buy ice cream.

Private business firms are limited in their scope and extent. There are -national- problems and deficiencies in the infra-structure that no one business firm or even a consortium of business firms can fund to solve. That is why we have government as a collection agent (complete with laws and guns). If government were run rationally and honestly we would not have the problems we do. Unfortunately when people are placed at the levers of great power, they often become corrupt.

ruveyn

they're deluded into thinking more taxes will = more services

According to the Grace commission down back in the 80s, 100% of the our income taxes that are collected go to servicing interest on the debt and transfer payments. That was back in the 80s, we have a lot more debt and a lot more interest.

Adults pay their bills. What's silly is starting two wars and letting your grandkids pay for it. So revenues need to match the policies that both parties have enacted. That's why I'm most grateful that Romney lost.

The GOP makes a lot of hay that "takers" want free stuff. The Bush polices were entirely based on free stuff. And they are still on the books. Time to cough up.

The neocons have no leg to stand on financially. Their only care is war and concentrating government power. They support the growth of the welfare state as a means winning support from the freeloaders, corporate or otherwise.

I'm not a member of the GOP, I can't speak for them. My view point is that if you want to drastically lower standards of living in this country, then by all means follow Obama right off the cliff. I never said that we need to cut the social safety net, if you're talking about things like medicare, disability and welfare although those things could use some drastic overhauls to make them more efficient and cost effective.

The conservative mantra on taxes isn't about protecting corporations or wealthy individuals. It's about creating revenue by creating more general income. If you get rid of the red tape that mummifies the common business, especially small businesses, then it allows them to free up capital. When they free up capital, they expand their business, jobs are created and demand for workers increases. More workers means more income tax, even though you tax them at a lower rate. It's an old strategy of economics, reduce the price per item but make up the difference in volume.

- Reduce gov't spending by reigning in the bureaucracy.
- Lower tax rates across the board. For everyone, not just the upper echelons.
- Scale back needless red tape. I.E. Remove pointless regulations like Obamacare, Temper out of control agencies like the EPA.
- Overhaul and streamline social programs to improve efficiency, lower costs and check for cheaters.
- Keep a necessary level of military spending, but don't overspend. (Bush the Younger was bad about this.)
- Cut foreign aid to countries who are no longer acting like allies. Egypt and Pakistan would be good examples.

This is not a difficult concept to implement, the problem at hand is that democrats do not want to implement it. They prefer a tax and spend approach which expands their own power. Without any regard for fiscal responsibility. This is why they marry social issues to fiscal issues. They go after certain demographics and convince them the country is against them, and that they need big gov't to provide for them because they can't have a career because they're black, latino, female, gay, etc. They also use corrupt labor unions to rob their employees of more money and to bully them into voting how the union wants them to. It's a huge mind f**k and most democrat voters couldn't bite the hook faster if you baited it with a bar of gold.

How do conservatives win this fight? By convincing everyone that fiscal responsibility, lower tax rates and smaller govt will bring more prosperity for everyone.

How do conservatives sell that message? I have no idea, and neither does anyone else. Since 50%+1 are convinced that making wealthy people pick up the tab for govt handouts is so cool.

It won't be so cool when the money runs out. Ask the Greeks about it.

Tax and spend has worked for 10,000 years. Spend and party doesnt. Demonizing taxes is the road to ruin. David Stockman is the architect of Reagan's supply side cuts. His budget director. Today he says:

How the GOP can be in the winning spirit again:

1. Abolish the armed forces, and the foreign policy will basically be: Do whatever France does.

2. Abolish the death penalty, and change the criminal code to read that it's only a crime if the perpetrator is white. (this would improve race relations)

3. Anyone who isn't a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, heterosexual male is excused from any responsibility and will be paid $100,000/year to do nothing. This is our way of compensating for past injustices. White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant, heterosexual males are banned from making more than $20,000/year, and are forbidden to have bank accounts. No banking limits for anyone else.

4. Ban religion, and practice state atheism (after all, Christians are the cause of all the world's problems)

5. Men are required to be subservient to women.

6. If the Dems are legalizing abortion and same-sex marriage, we'll legalize bestiality and incest.

7. Hate-speech laws stricter than those in Sweden.