Opinion on chivalry?

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I got the train home one evening and a man around the age of 70 offered his seat to a 20 year old woman.
He solely did this because she was a woman.
Do you think this kind of behavior is acceptable? After all, if we want equality we should oppose a demeaning act like this.

This is a hypothetical argument and would never happen but for example: If a 70 year old woman offered her seat to the younger man the majority of the train would be disgusted and probably despise this man (and rightly so too), yet when it's the opposite way it's socially acceptable.

No one should be entitled to special treatment because of their gender; special treatment should only be offered when the person is disabled or sick.

So my question is: Do you think this elderly man was wrong in offering this woman his seat? And do you also think the woman was wrong for accepting it?
I know this is small in comparison to important equality issues, such as equal pay but I'd appreciate your input.

in regards to disability, i'd go farther than that and say that assistance should only be offered to disabled people when and where its absolutely needed and the recipient wont feel resentful. Otherwise you just come across as a patronising jerk.

Look up 'disability etiquette'.

You are absolutely right, I should have been more specific.

She shouldn't have taken a seat from a 70-year-old man.

Beyond that, 'chivalry' is (not always, but too often) the fool's prize that sexist men give to women rather than actual human respect. I'd far rather be around a guy who ignores my chair and seats himself, but won't listen to his friends mocking me behind my back, than one who gets my chair first and then compares my 'assets' with his friends behind my back. Or whatever dehumanizing thing that men so often say about women - that they're stupid, or emotional, or 'need to get laid.'

I think the man was very much a gentleman and he did the polite thing to offer his seat to her. I think that if she took his seat, she was in the wrong because even though etiquitte states that he should have offered it to her, (pearls before swine) it also dictates that she should have declined it (age before beauty).

I happen to enjoy men acting like gentlemen. I think that men should be taught to be polite like that. Opening doors for a lady, holding her chair, taking her coat, lighting her cigarette, etc have nothing to do with being condescending nor is it demeaning to allow someone to use manners. What is condescending is to think that your opinion is so far above other's that you are somehow so morally superior to them that you are sitting in a place where you are the sole arbitor of judgement of correctness and also are able to state without a shadow of a doubt, what their motive for doing so is, and their consideration of the person to whom they display manners.

In other words, she was wrong to accept it because of his age, but for someone else to get so upset over simple manners just makes them come across like a jerk.

A man holding a door open for me does not in any way influence nor state his opinion of what I am or am not capable of doing, whether in my personal or professional life. My getting worked up into a tizzy because of a show of simple courtesy (or lack of if he didn't do it) would most definately show my inability to reason like a rational human being.

Gender equality has absolutely nothing to do with manners.

Then again, some are never taught manners.

I understand the compulsion to be chivalrous, because I like women and have it myself towards other women. I like to open doors, offer my seat, pay for drinks, etc. I don't think I'm owed anything in return for doing these things, it's just I think it's something I like to do to. if someone wants to be chivalrous, we should let them. Society shouldn't expect chivalry from men, and no-one should expect anything in return for being chivalrous.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 23 Nov 2012, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There is nothing wrong with good manners I like having the door opened for me and I always say thank you, likewise I will hold the door open for anyone who comes behind me.

If women are rude to men who show manners no wonder they will get confused not Knowing if they should offer a seat or hold a door open.
With the rudeness of society these days its good to have manners.

afaik, opening doors is a matter of logistics - who gets to the door first, and what direction the door opens in. I open doors for other people as often as they're opened for me, and I always nod or say 'thank you' when someone holds a door for me. I'm especially grateful if my hands are full. However, I don't think that it has anything to do with gender.

Wrt. chivalry being a substitute for respect, I'm reminded of a story I heard once (told by a man): at a subway platform in NY, a couple of men in clerical garb made a big show of blocking other men and insisting that the women who were waiting should get on the train first. The women had to choose between getting on first, or making all of the other passengers wait while they argued with the clerics about not getting on first. The clerics had smug looks on their faces, like they were proving a point about how they were 'better men' than all of the other men on the platform. The story-teller ended up sitting a few seats away from the clerics, and during the journey heard them speculating about the sex lives of the women that they had 'respectfully' insisted get on first: things like, 'she looks unhappy, her husband must not be f*****g her enough.'

On a personal note, I happened to be in DC the week that the 'Million Man March' (anybody remember the 'Promise Keepers'?) was going on. As I went from museum to museum, I had men literally turning around and running to hold doors for me. It wasn't because they wanted to make my day go more smoothly, it was because they were using me as a prop to show other men how 'respectful' of women they were. If you don't remember, these were the guys who said that men should 'take control' in the home and that wives should obey their husbands in the same way that Christians obey Christ. *barf*

Maybe it's possible for chivalry to be just about manners, but when it gets ostentations, in my experience it's usually about something else.

Sure, some people can take any nice thing and use it differently than it's meant and turn it into something entirely different. That doesn't change the meaning of the original thing, nor it's intent, nor does it turn those who use it as it was intended into chauvanistic pigs who deserve to be shot for daring to pull out someones chair.

Where I'm from, it's just what you were taught to do. There are manners for men to use with ladies, lady's to use with men, children to use with adults, adults to use with the elderly, etc. That doesn't mean that when someone uses those manners that they are trying to prove a point. It's just simply good manners.

If a 20 year old woman offers her seat on the bus to a 70 year old woman do you think that the 20 year old is implying that the 70 year old is so decrepit that she must have immediate need to sit? Or are certain manners that are taught to be used with a specific group of people so discriminatory and bigoted that they should be immediately outlawed?

ETA; I knew a guy that was a fireman from the Deep South who went to some large convention somewhere up North. He was a nice guy and not a chauvanist in any way. At lunchtime, a group of the people who were at the conference went to eat and were standing outside to smoke before going back in. A lady fireman was in their group and she put her cigarette in her mouth to light it, and because the guy had his lighter still out and in his hand, he lit it and held it up for her to light her cigarette. Well, she about had a stroke right there. He was being "chauvanistic" and "sexist" and he was "harrassing" her and she marched her little butt back in there to tell on him.

For attempting to light her cigarette.

It's not like he started frantically digging in his pockets. That would be overkill and would only be expected at the most formal of occasions.

Usually most girls don't expect guys to do those certain things, they are simply done. When they are offered, then you graciously accept them. They are not our "due" just for having a vagina. However, depending on where you are and what situation you are in, they most certainly shed some light on your upbringing and who you are as a person.

... if it makes him feel like a stud for being the source of a cute girl's comfortableness, let him have his joy, geez...

Must we rob people of the human experience to conform to a theory? Is the theory that important? If you learned this in college, please unlearn it and return to the real world.

I used to do it all the time too, only to be annoyed when someone does it to me, and I'm still too far away, and I have to run just to catch the door that they kindly held open for me?

I think the rule is only if they are five feet away. Forcing them to not be an ingrate, and be a forced recipient of your unasked for hospitality may annoy them, even if they don't show it. I know it annoys me.

Chivalry is formal mode of Good Manners. Good Manners are by and large in short supply.

ruveyn

There's nothing wrong with chivalry.
If anything we need more of if in society.

I like horses.

The HELL we do


We need more civility and courtesy to others, but chivalry in the post-feminist age amounts to nothing more than inculcating women with a sense of entitlement(which they already HAVE).