Is God Santa Claus for adults?

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I'm leaving, this isn't a discussion anymore. Adios.

Best Regards,

Jake

My root cause was twofold:

I read the bible, I talked to my priest. I couldn't reconcile what I read with the idea of an all loving god. I talked to my priest about that, he had no explanation other than "god works in mysterious ways."

realising what I was dealing with, I told him to shove it and went off to do my own thing. I was a non-denomination Christian for a little while, eventually I found I could no longer reconcile the christian god with reality. I researched Deism, but I couldn;t find any[/]i evidence supporting the existence of [i]any creator. Hence, I became an Atheist.

Simple stuff, really.

In an attempt to turn this thread back around:

The key factors that led me to atheism were contradictory education as a kid. I was taught in one class-room that the Christian god created everything and the bible was true. We were also forced to give worship to this god in morning assemblies. However, in a different classroom we were taught about evolution and how life evolved over millions of years. OK call me pedantic, but both could not be correct! To me it seemed extremely important to know which (if either) was correct. After lots more science eduction at university and my own research evolution won hands down. That raised lots more questions about the reliability of the bible or even if the Christian god actually existed anyway. After 52 years I've accumulated a massive amount of facts and knowledge and it is clear to me that the Christian god is no more real than the Viking god Thor or the gods of any other civilisation past or present. On the other hand science is doing a damn good job of unravelling the nature of life and the universe. Notions of gods are just fiction, no more real than unicorns or fairies at the bottom of the garden.

I would like to investigate why you feel guilty.


Best Regards,

Jake

please explain why he should feel guilty?

it is an assumption that you cant possible know anything about.

Seems to me you just picked a side that you agreed with. After you said you want to know which side was correct. You picked science and didn't consider creation from what I can infer from your own words. As a person who is familiar with the scientific method, I would consider both sides then deduce a conclusion from them. You also portray "Christianity" as an oppressor. You use the word "Force" as if you didn't have a choice. You had a choice all along, you just picked a side that you agreed with.



I would like to see those facts, is it possible for you to send it to me in an email?

Best Regards,

Jake

Last edited by NAKnight on 04 Dec 2012, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm asking him
I have no reason to make him feel guilty that is his own doing and his own words.
If he feels guilty about he should confront himself and overcome it.

Best Regards,

Jake

You want a university science education and 52 years worth of facts and knowledge in an email? Sorry, go do your own research if you really are that interested. After your post in the Random forum regarding atheism I can't take you seriously any more. I think you are only here to troll; nothing more. Bye!

So if challenging your values and beliefs is the definition of a troll I guess agreeing with you would make me not a troll, right?
I mean it's an open forum. I would consider you to do a little more soul searching. I don't object to you being an atheist, by all means. I just want to know why and how you believe it to be so and stand up for it. All I see is a person who is looking for answers and meaning.

This post taken from the Unpopular beliefs thread in the Random forum:

Based on the above you appear to have already made up your mind about atheism, with some bizarre conclusions. I see no point prolonging a conversation with you as you appear to have understood nothing said to you (by anyone!). My time is limited and I've wasted too much of it on you already. This is my final post on the subject in this thread.

That post was in the unpopular opinion for a reason....... it's unpopular
The General Consensus is Atheism because mostly everyone agrees it be so.
I did my duty and stood up to the established way of thinking and challenged you and others who believe that to be so.

My thoughts are valid, and it's posted in the opinion forum.... keyword: opinion my bases are covered.

Might as well close the thread now.


Best Regards,

Jake

As a child, I went through a similar educational process as TallyMan and came to similar conclusions. In religion class I was taught one view of the history of life on earth and in science class I was taught a different one. I did honestly consider both sides and over the course of my childhood (not just on one day) decided that the view that did not involve God was more plausible and more consistent with the evidence.

Why did I conclude that? Because of the global consistency of the scientific view of the history of life on earth (and the history of the universe, Big Bang etc.). The religious view varied depending on where you were born and which religion your parents raised you in. It seemed too arbitrary to be plausible. But the scientific view was consistent around the world and also throughout history. It remains consistent. The only thing that changes is the accumulation of data. The data available to Archimedes, Newton, Darwin and scientists today has changed, but the way of assessing it has not. I found the absolute consistency to be convincing. Nobody was creating stories. They were assessing data. But religions don't assess data. They create stories and these stories are arbitrary.

Like TallyMan said upthread, everyone is an athiest about the religions they don't believe in. Somebody who believes in Yaweh or Jesus will necessarily not believe in Zeus or Thor. It's the arbitrariness of what (or who) to believe in that convinced me that religion is not the path towards figuring out what really happened on earth and throughout space and how things really work. It may work just fine as a way to come up with rules for the smooth functioning of society. "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is an excellent value. But those values and rules don't have anything to do with figuring out how life and matter actually operates. That's why posters have been trying so hard to get you to disentangle "value" from "fact".

Because every human has values you as a person base your decisions on those values. You decide what is factual and opinion based upon those values. That's the connection between value and fact.

I can decide to be an Atheist simply because it agrees with my values and facts that I choose to adhere to. It isn't just an absence of belief, that's superficial.

My point is this; Atheism is a belief and value system because the person chooses to not to believe in a "Deity" and associates their values with that.
Calling Atheism not a belief system or a lack of belief is a statement that does not hold water. It is a belief system, the belief system of not believing is the belief system. It ties along with your values of non-belief. And those values that you cherish, along with non-belief is the foundation for your belief system and value system.


You can choose not to decide, but you still have made a choice




Best Regards,

Jake

again a non sequiter,

if you wanted to ask him if he felt guilty then you should have done so, instead you said you wanted to investigate why, implying that he already felt guilty.

this is going nowhere, you seem to have misunderstood the very nature of many of the conepts relevant to this debate and that coupled with the lack of listening immediately removes any motivation for anyone to respond or engage with you, out of sheer futility.

again there is plenty of points that you quite simply have refused to even acknowledge and instead responded with logical loops or non sequiters.

as for your last post,

yes strong atheism is a value, but only one, there doesnt need to be any other common denominators.
people can have thousands of values and it often isnt a clear cut case either, the human brain does not function on a strict binary pattern.

Last edited by Oodain on 04 Dec 2012, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.