John Kerry ducks Falkland Islands issue during London visit

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puddingmouse
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25 Feb 2013, 2:56 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Quite. This government is free to talk about that stuff because it wouldn't have any bad effects. This is how politicians think.


So you don't think that the principle of standing up for something - anything - is worth more than the potential 'discomfort'?

Hell, if we thought like that, we would still have slavery.


I do think about principles. That's why, as I said, I'm no politician.



Tequila
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25 Feb 2013, 2:57 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I do think about principles. That's why, as I said, I'm no politician.


You could still be a politician. Just not of the 'Establishment'.



puddingmouse
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25 Feb 2013, 3:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I do think about principles. That's why, as I said, I'm no politician.


You could still be a politician. Just not of the 'Establishment'.


Politics is the art of power. You are not a politician unless you wield some power. How do you gain power? By cannily convincing people to let you have it, which you do by convincing them that your opinion doesn't differ too much from theirs. Too much two-facedness even at grassroots levels (which I got a good look at as a student).

I can't bluff and bullshit in the real world. I can only do it recreationally in strategy games



lotuspuppy
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25 Feb 2013, 3:46 pm

The "special relationship" was always more of a U.K. thing. While both nations have obviously benefitted, the U.K. has benefitted way more. It has remained on the world stage for far longer than it would have if it went a similar drection that France did, and the country benefited greatly. Whether you argue the U.S. is a declining power or not, it will still be a strong and independent player in world affairs for the foreseeable future, even if it can't unilaterally enact its will. Today, Britain has a hard time unilaterally enacting its foreign policy. My sense is that Britain is buddy buddy with the U.S. because Westminster cannot bear the thought of the alternative, which is drifting toward Britain.

On the other hand, if the U.K. brought back Tony Blair... But one can only dream.



trollcatman
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25 Feb 2013, 4:45 pm

If they moved the Falklands properly into the UK instead of them being an British Overseas Territory, would they then automatically become part of NATO? Then the British won't have to go at it alone in case of invasion, and invasion would be less likely.

French Guyana is also in NATO. The British should create a new kingdom, the Kingdom of Outremêr, which should include the Falklands and Gibraltar and all those other islands if their populations would like to join. Then the UK would be England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Outremêr :twisted:



Tequila
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25 Feb 2013, 4:59 pm

trollcatman wrote:
If they moved the Falklands properly into the UK instead of them being an British Overseas Territory, would they then automatically become part of NATO? Then the British won't have to go at it alone in case of invasion, and invasion would be less likely.


RAF Gibraltar is used by the UK and NATO. So I suspect that any attack on British territory would be seen as an attack on the UK, which it is.

As for your wider point: I've been an integrationist (of some kind) for a while now. I would personally like to see a federal UK, with the British Overseas Territories becoming a part of that UK and having representation in Westminster.

trollcatman wrote:
French Guyana is also in NATO.


No, you're wrong. France is in NATO. French Guiana is in France.

trollcatman wrote:
The British should create a new kingdom, the Kingdom of Outremêr, which should include the Falklands and Gibraltar and all those other islands if their populations would like to join.


You've forgotten the Crown Dependencies.



visagrunt
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25 Feb 2013, 5:18 pm

Tequila wrote:
The colonialist Argentines have no case for the Islands.


Wow, that's irony you can eat with a spoon.

Quote:
John Kerry has embarrassed himself and his country yet again. I hope the rest of his countrymen aren't quite so eager to cravenly isolate their closest friends as he is.


What utter nonsense.

The United States knows perfectly well that there is absolutely zero risk of Argentina getting any meaningful traction on the Falklands. The Islanders will manifest, yet again, their firm determination not to disturb their existing constitutional arrangements, and the Argentinians will continue to manifest their spurious claim. The world goes on.

Why on earth should the Americans spend any political capital on this question, when there are vastly more pressing issues--and ones in which the United States has a compelling interest--that merit attention.

Nothing is going to change in the Falklands, so don't waste time on it.

What's next?


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Tequila
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25 Feb 2013, 5:19 pm

visagrunt wrote:
What's next?


Sardines!



trollcatman
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25 Feb 2013, 5:32 pm

The French Guyana was my point. They are in France, therefore in NATO. Just let the other islands, regardless of Territory/Depency/other decide to join the UK or one of the UK countries.
Something similiar is being done in the Netherlands, where Bonaire, Saba en Eusthatius in the Caribbean are now municipalities of the country of the Netherlands, instead of seperate countries within the Kingdom of the Netherlands.



The_Walrus
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26 Feb 2013, 11:13 am

visagrunt wrote:
What utter nonsense.

The United States knows perfectly well that there is absolutely zero risk of Argentina getting any meaningful traction on the Falklands. The Islanders will manifest, yet again, their firm determination not to disturb their existing constitutional arrangements, and the Argentinians will continue to manifest their spurious claim. The world goes on.

Why on earth should the Americans spend any political capital on this question, when there are vastly more pressing issues--and ones in which the United States has a compelling interest--that merit attention.

Nothing is going to change in the Falklands, so don't waste time on it.

What's next?

I basically agree with all of this.

Embarrassed himself :lol: He hasn't passed comment on a trivial issue. Big whoop. It's not like he's denied climate change or banned GMOs.