Tropes vs Women in Video Games: Ms. Male Chararacter"

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Jono
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01 Dec 2013, 10:10 pm

Ok, I didn't know whether I should of posted this in the Video Games section or PPR but here we go. So, Anita Sarkeesian has uploaded the 4th instalment of her video series "Tropes vs Women in Video Games". The video's been up for about a week already. This is now the first of her videos which I almost 100% agree with.

Anyway, she's now moved away from damsels in distress and has now gone on to talking about character design. She's now talking about a different which she calls the "Ms. Male Character" which seems like sort of a combination of the "distaff counterpart" and the"Smurfette principle" in other media. She claims that Ms. Pac-Man was original Ms. Male Character in video games and defines it as creating a female character out of existing male counterparts simply by adding attributes to it, such as a bow, in order to indicate gender. The issue here is that characters that don't have specific signifiers to indicate gender are automatically assumed to be male while female characters have to be specifically designed to be female. One consequence of this kind of character design unfortunately, is that males end up being allowed to have a variety of personality types whereas "female" is itself treated as a personality type, something Anita calls "personality type "female" syndrome" which she illustrates with the example of Wendy Kooper. Common traits of a "female" personality type is being vain, spoiled, bratty, moody and quick to anger. This is especially true when the female character is the only one in group of male characters, so this goes hand in hand with the "Smufette principle" - a trope in other media that was first brought attention to by a feminist in 1991 who pointed out that Smurfette was the only female smurf in the popular kids show. The "Smurfette principle" is essentially the "token chick" or the token female character, similar to the token black guy that you also get in other media.

It should be noted that a "Ms Male Character" is not simply a female version of a character in a game that offers you a choice between playing a male or female character. Ms Male Characters are specifically female characters that are created as lesser versions of an already established male characters. I think that the truly problematic aspect of Ms Male Characters is that they not only perpetuate gender stereotypes but they are also based on assumptions about different genders being interested in different things and that they can deny female gamers the gaming experience that they want. Female characters that are just the female version of a protagonist in a game that offers you choice which also have fully developed and detailed character designs and story arcs, as well as dressed appropriately in the right contexts (no chain-mail bikinis, for example), are not Ms Male Characters. Female Shephard in the Mass Effect series is not a Ms Male Character as far as character design and gameplay experience is concerned. That being said, I don't have a problem with what Anita was saying about male Shephard being the most prominently featured in the advertising and promotional materials in the Mass Effect series as that was actually one of the main criticisms. That being said though, the decision to mainly show male Shephard as the protagonist in promotional materials was a decision by the publisher EA, while the intention of Bioware was to make a gender neutral character (either male or female) and not a default male character, which is actually a good thing as far as these tropes are concerned.

Here's the video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqYLfm1rWA&list=PLn4ob_5_ttEaA_vc8F3fjzE62esf9yP61&index=1[/youtube]



staremaster
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02 Dec 2013, 12:03 am

Hmm. I can't think of many modern examples of this phenomenon. For all the sexism inherent in their design, modern female video game characters are usually quite independent from their male counterparts.



Jono
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02 Dec 2013, 6:12 am

staremaster wrote:
Hmm. I can't think of many modern examples of this phenomenon. For all the sexism inherent in their design, modern female video game characters are usually quite independent from their male counterparts.


Well, if you watch the video, you'll see that she actually does give a few examples of it in games that have only been released in the past few years. Scribblenauts Unlimited, for example, was in fact only released last year. It does seem true though that most of the more modern games with strong storylines don't seem to have this problem. Amy Rose from the Sonic series has been a bit better in her more recent modern incarnations but that also doesn't change the fact that her original character design was as a Ms Male Character, basically just a female version of Sonic.



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02 Dec 2013, 9:03 am

Anita is a hypocrite and a scam artist(asked for money) and she was not like this before she met Jonathan Mcintosh the brains behind this feminazi crusade. both of them when to a dragoncon event in 2009 where women dress in sexy revealing attire showing a lot of skin and erotic materials are available. and they don't cry sexism. pictures can be seen on past flickr pages before than she was promoting a telesiminar pyramid scheme

in her damsel in distress videos she claims that a men saving women in danger is sexist and patriarchal. in a scene i saw she claim that Mariah Carey singing a christmas love song to a man she loved(saying you) is sexist and patriarchal


in this latest hypocrite piece say is saying female characters dressing in female attire and sexist and stereotypical. in All of her videos she always dress in feminine attire including those big round earings. so why is it ok for her to dress in the same things she is railing against in video games. her website feminist frequency is also in feminine colours

she is the type of feminazi that think women dressing sexy using thier own free will is sexist and patriarchial. she claimed she is "opressed" when she does like what she sees in movies and videos.


she claims she is against voilence but recently endorce a fan fiction story that have her toture and murdering a man who created a game she does not like

i used the word feminazi because like Nazis she wants to change society to fit her feminazi views. and it's a shame colleges are inviting her to speak


also in her lectures like "making a man out of you" she talks like a high school girl, saying like, you know, am, um. etc she rails against gender stereotypes and yet she talks in natural girly manner. and you folks are falling for this scammer? she rails against Patriarchy but have no problem Allowing Jonathan McIntosh to dictate her feminazi views. in the credits at the end her hypocritical videos he is listed as a Producer.




P.S

We are not in a Patriarchial society women are equally protected under the law, and if this was one She would not be allowed to make money by waging her futile crusade.



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a spoiled, rich, pampered, white, privileged princess living in a first world country has no business talking about opression


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Last edited by sephardic-male on 02 Dec 2013, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

sephardic-male
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02 Dec 2013, 9:11 am

http://anongamer.tumblr.com/


Jonathan Mcintosh, the man behind Anita Sarkeesian


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLhozn0bLAg[/youtube]


up a few websites where Anita seemed to be working as a PR agent for a bullshit “how handwriting determines success” handwriting analysis. Some guy named Bart Baggett.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/01/prweb197342.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/01/prweb335817.htm
http://attorney-pr.blogspot.com/2008_06_07_archive.html
http://weightlosshypnotists.com/weightl ... d-private/


Check out some of her early photos still on her flickr page whe she doesn’t exactly seem disgusted by various women in provocative outfits or dressing up as Barbie or Elvira… :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... 903062404/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
(In the picture of Elvira someone comments “Dude looks like a lady”… but Anita didn’t delete it or respond. :/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Pedophile joke…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
“sexualized” gender bent dart vader

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Girl with gigantic deathstar boobs

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Sexualized storm trooper… obviously I’m using the terms “Sexualized” here based on her on criticisms she throws out since starting femfreq…


more at http://anongamer.tumblr.com/


update:



This exposes her true agenda

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSoDEA6yw24[/youtube]


Jonathan Mcintosh steps in after Anita sarkeesian is being exposed as a fraud and a scam artist



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEP5nZhRCDY[/youtube]


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Last edited by sephardic-male on 02 Dec 2013, 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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02 Dec 2013, 9:38 am

sephardic-male wrote:
Jonathan Mcintosh, the man behind Anita Sarkeesian


This is her husband, and the man who introduced her to strong feminist views.

Quote:
up a few websites where Anita seemed to be working as a PR agent for a bullshit “how handwriting determines success” handwriting analysis. Some guy named Bart Baggett.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/01/prweb197342.htm
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/01/prweb335817.htm
http://attorney-pr.blogspot.com/2008_06_07_archive.html
http://weightlosshypnotists.com/weightl ... d-private/


This pyramid scheme actually screwed her over as well, and it happened when she was young and didn't know any better.

Quote:
Check out some of her early photos still on her flickr page whe she doesn’t exactly seem disgusted by various women in provocative outfits or dressing up as Barbie or Elvira… :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... 903062404/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
(In the picture of Elvira someone comments “Dude looks like a lady”… but Anita didn’t delete it or respond. :/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Pedophile joke…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
“sexualized” gender bent dart vader

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Girl with gigantic deathstar boobs

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitasark ... otostream/
Sexualized storm trooper… obviously I’m using the terms “Sexualized” here based on her on criticisms she throws out since starting femfreq…


more at http://anongamer.tumblr.com/


She only minds women in provocative outfits when the men in the very same video games are not dressed that way.



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02 Dec 2013, 9:46 am

sephardic-male wrote:
Anita is a hypocrite and a scam artist(asked for money) and she was not like this before she met Jonathan Mcintosh the brains behind this feminazi crusade. both of them when to a dragoncon event in 2009 where women dress in sexy revealing attire showing a lot of skin and erotic materials are available. and they don't cry sexism. pictures can be seen on past flickr pages before than she was promoting a telesiminar pyramid scheme


She asked for 6,000 dollars, to be precise. Digging up stuff about her private life like her haters do, is creepy, though.

Quote:
in her damsel in distress videos she claims that a men saving women in danger is sexist and patriarchal. in a scene i saw she claim that Mariah Carey singing a christmas love song to a man she loved(saying you) is sexist and patriarchal


Some of her points are exaggerated, but that does not make her a feminazi.

Quote:
in this latest hypocrite piece say is saying female characters dressing in female attire and sexist and stereotypical.


She says that putting a ribbon on the head of one female character and giving them stereotypical female attributes effectively renders the other characters as men. She also points out that many Smurfettes have no personality traits beyond being girls.

Quote:
in All of her videos she always dress in feminine attire including those big round earings. so why is it ok for her to dress in the same things she is railing against in video games. her website feminist frequency is also in feminine colours


I've never seen her with cleavage, a cropped top or a miniskirt. She's a feminist who doesn't dress like Andrea Dworkin--I don't see the problem.

Quote:
she is the type of feminazi that think women dressing sexy using thier own free will is sexist and patriarchial. she claimed she is "opressed" when she does like what she sees in movies and videos.


That's not what she claims. Investigate what she's actually saying before you criticize her.

Quote:
also in her lectures like "making a man out of you" she talks like a high school girl, saying like, you know, am, um. etc she rails against gender stereotypes and yet she talks in natural girly manner. and you folks are falling for this scammer? she rails against Patriarchy but have no problem Allowing Jonathan McIntosh to dictate her feminazi views. in the credits at the end her hypocritical videos he is listed as a Producer.


She's helped out by her husband. There's nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
a spoiled, rich, pampered, white, privileged princess living in a first world country has no business talking about opression


She isn't talking about opression, but about how women are portrayed in video games and sexism on the internet. You're only proving that she's right. If she was a straight, white man, she wouldn't be doxed, wouldn't get sexist mails everyday and wouldn't be called a "mascunazi". The only place where TheAmazingAtheist actually meets harassment is on Encyclopedia Dramatica.



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02 Dec 2013, 10:12 am

sephardic-male wrote:
i used the word feminazi because like Nazis she wants to change society to fit her feminazi views.

So a Nazi is someone who wants to change society to fit their views?



sephardic-male
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02 Dec 2013, 10:18 am

Quote:
She asked for 6,000 dollars, to be precise. Digging up stuff about her private life like her haters do, is creepy, though.


they are on the internet in public view for all to see. there is very little privacy on the internet they are not "private" and why does she need money when the average you tuber can make videos using simple video editing software? is she paying taxes on that money. is she a registered charity? I am thinking of reporting her to the IRS.



Quote:
Some of her points are exaggerated, but that does not make her a feminazi.



if a woman is kidnapped the last thing she is thinking about is how she is oppressed by patriarchy. she clearly lacks empathy and it shows shows when she endorsed a fan fiction that have here torturing and killing man for creating a video game she does not like


Quote:
She says that putting a ribbon on the head of one female character and giving them stereotypical female attributes effectively renders the other characters as men. She also points out that many Smurfettes have no personality traits beyond being girls.



that's bullshit. men and women dress differently. there are some differences between men and woman. that's life get use to it.


Quote:
I've never seen her with cleavage, a cropped top or a miniskirt. She's a feminist who doesn't dress like Andrea Dworkin--I don't see the problem.



there are many ways to dress feminine without showing cleavage and miniskirt. it is a problem when she criticize women for dressing in a way she does not like. and whining over video games she does not like


Quote:
That's not what she claims. Investigate what she's actually saying before you criticize her.


yes that what is she saying in her crusade. she is whining and complaining about fictional characters in video games.

Quote:
She's helped out by her husband. There's nothing wrong with that.



her husband is the architect behind this crusade. he is using her or his agenda. like the man Victor Svyatski who created the group FEMEN. he choose all the hot cute girls and send them to protest.


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 97042.html





Quote:
She isn't talking about opression, but about how women are portrayed in video games and sexism on the internet. You're only proving that she's right. If she was a straight, white man, she wouldn't be doxed, wouldn't get sexist mails everyday and wouldn't be called a "mascunazi". The only place where TheAmazingAtheist actually meets harassment is on Encyclopedia Dramatica.



if she does not like certain video games she is free to NOT buy them. we live in a free society. if she does not like certain websites and they are not breaking any criminal laws. don't look at them.



in a lecture she said she was getting hate mails and harassment BEFORE she started this crusade she was even laughing about it.


in a free society everybody including me will see and exposed to content we
don't like. in video games and on the internet. get use to it


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02 Dec 2013, 10:35 am

I think it's hilarious how hot and bothered some people get over this broad.

Personally, I only play video games with strong story lines and well-developed characters, so I don't run into the problem of of sexist depictions of women very often. Additionally, I'm not prone to interpreting a single character as representative of an entire group of people. For example, I didn't see Mario having to rescue Princess Peach as sexist commentary on women so much as I figured Princess Peach was really stupid for getting kidnapped all the time, and Mario was a dope for constantly going after her dumb arse.

In any event, it's really incredible the amount of flak Anita is receiving for daring to criticize the video game industry. I think the reaction to her videos are almost more worthy of discussion than the videos themselves.

Is it a case that many gamers are just the type of people who love to spew vitriol at the slightest provocation?


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02 Dec 2013, 10:43 am

sephardic-male wrote:
they are on the internet in public view for all to see. there is very little privacy on the internet they are not "private" and why does she need money when the average you tuber can make videos using simple video editing software? is she paying taxes on that money. is she a registered charity? I am thinking of reporting her to the IRS.


If you didn't give her any money, it's really none of your business, but actually making videos look professional takes time--and she also needs to buy the games before she plays them.


Quote:
that's bullshit. men and women dress differently. there are some differences between men and woman. that's life get use to it.


Her point on how Bowser's daughter had no defining characteristics apart from being a stereotypical teenage girl is actually spot on. Ms. Pacman doesn't even have hair; why does she need a ribbon?

Quote:
there are many ways to dress feminine without showing cleavage and miniskirt. it is a problem when she criticize women for dressing in a way she does not like. and whining over video games she does not like


She's never criticized anyone for dressing feminine.

Quote:
her husband is the architect behind this crusade. he is using her or his agenda. like the man Victor Svyatski who created the group FEMEN. he choose all the hot cute girls and send them to protest.


Anita Sarkeesian looks rather ordinary--and if he was using her for the money, Sarkeesian would probably ask for more than 6,000 dollars.



Quote:
if she does not like certain video games she is free to NOT buy them. we live in a free society. if she does not like certain websites and they are not breaking any criminal laws. don't look at them.


And you're free not to watch her videos.

Quote:
in a lecture she said she was getting hate mails and harassment BEFORE she started this crusade she was even laughing about it.


Probably because she already owned a business before her fame.

Quote:
in a free society everybody including me will see and exposed to content we
don't like. in video games and on the internet. get use to it


So you are more entitled to this than she is?



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02 Dec 2013, 10:44 am

Jono wrote:
Anyway, she's now moved away from damsels in distress and has now gone on to talking about character design. She's now talking about a different which she calls the "Ms. Male Character" which seems like sort of a combination of the "distaff counterpart" and the"Smurfette principle" in other media. She claims that Ms. Pac-Man was original Ms. Male Character in video games and defines it as creating a female character out of existing male counterparts simply by adding attributes to it, such as a bow, in order to indicate gender.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqYLfm1rWA&list=PLn4ob_5_ttEaA_vc8F3fjzE62esf9yP61&index=1[/youtube]



Take away the lipstick, the eyebrow styling, and the hoop earrings, and Mrs. MacIntosh could pass for a boy.

Adding these female accoutrements takes away the guesswork.

Same with

Image



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02 Dec 2013, 11:03 am

Quote:
If you didn't give her any money, it's really none of your business, but actually making videos look professional takes time--and she also needs to buy the games before she plays them.



in a past video she admitted that she is not a fan of video games. she doesn't play them she got the videos from youtube videos of youtubers playing the games and uploading them without their permission. and yes it is my business when she is scamming the public and have universities and colleges funded by tax dollars inviting her to speak.


Quote:
Her point on how Bowser's daughter had no defining characteristics apart from being a stereotypical teenage girl is actually spot on. Ms. Pacman doesn't even have hair; why does she need a ribbon?


so what if ms pacman wear a ribbon? don't like don't buy it


Quote:
She's never criticized anyone for dressing feminine.


yes she did and she claim that hollywood actressed are "forced" to take roles she don't like. and she also whines about seven of 9 in star trek voyager abotu the way she dresses, ignoring the fact that she was liberated from the borg and was not a member of starfleet. she whines how she was not in uniform. see a pattern here? whining and complaining about s**t she does not like calling it "being a critic"

Quote:
Anita Sarkeesian looks rather ordinary--and if he was using her for the money, Sarkeesian would probably ask for more than 6,000 dollars.



she is applying what she learned from past involvement in schemes where folks are encouraged to milk others for money.




Quote:
And you're free not to watch her videos.


she is scamming the public with her whining colleges funded by tax dollars are allowing her to do more scamming.


Quote:
Probably because she already owned a business before her fame.


what kind of business?


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So you are more entitled to this than she is?


she is not entitled to scam the public


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02 Dec 2013, 11:28 am

Anita definitely looks more feminine looking than, say, girlwriteswat.



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02 Dec 2013, 11:37 am

MCalavera wrote:
Anita definitely looks more feminine looking than, say, girlwriteswat.


Sounds like a great topic for a poll.