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What Are Your Beliefs Based On ?
Science 76%  76%  [ 26 ]
Spirituality 24%  24%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 34

Lukecash12
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18 Jul 2015, 11:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:

He presents a hair brained straw man of theist moral arguments, confusing epistemology and existentialism for each other with this statement: "Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled." Theist arguments on this subject tend to focus on epistemology first, yet he props up a straw man in the book by assuming that Christians primarily argue for their existential superiority.


I can't see what you see in his quote...
There is not enough context for me to form an opinion other than thinking it seems to be a reasonable statement.
Many less sophisticated theists do seem to be under the delusion that without a spiritual orientation, life is without fulfillment. I have myself come across this attitude often enough to recognise it as a pattern of some theists.

Are you sure he isn't excluding academics...
...and the more educated individuals?

But like I said, you haven't included enough of a contextual environment for me to do anything other than speculate on what his motives may have been in regards to that quote.


I can't conceive of Richard Dawkins grossly generalising in such a base way...
...that *all* committed theists embrace the "sin" of arrogance...
...that all have a sense of "existential superiority"...
I am sure he would be referring to the unthinking/uneducated elements...surely...

No educated/intelligent/thinking person could have such an attitude, right?...
And Richard Dawkins is all of the above... :wink:


To be honest, I don't even own a copy any more. He was merely being used as an example of the New Atheism movement.

If you don't feel that my characterization is fair, I invite you to disregard it. However, I am certain that anyone truly familiar enough with Dawkins should know, especially given some of the recorded debates he has been in (with Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig, for example), that he really has confused existentialism and epistemology like I've said. If you'd like, I can drudge up some references for you from somewhere, of his debates and his comments towards Craig actually disparaging the whole practice of philosophy.

Quote:
I was under the impression that the Pope was the head of the catholic church... ;)

The "inconvenient truth" (singular) I was referring to was this:
"On this day in 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculano da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII,begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial."

"The Church had decided the idea that the Sun moved around the Earth was an absolute fact of scripture that could not be disputed, despite the fact that scientists had known for centuries that the Earth was not the center of the universe."

Galileo agreed not to teach the heresy anymore and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. It took more than 300 years for the Church to admit that Galileo was right and to clear his name of heresy."

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -of-heresy


See this post of mine elsewhere:

Quote:
Some important information is sorely needed here, in order to properly understand catholic thinking. The Pope, aka the Bishop of Rome, is not considered to be speaking ex cathedra unless he explicitly specifies that he is speaking on those grounds. What ex cathedra means, is that he is speaking for the assembly of himself and the cardinals.

This is the only instance in which Roman Catholics teach that the Pope can say something infallible; it is when the leadership of the church is in agreement. Here we do not see an example of the Pope speaking ex cathedra. See Vatican II.

And I swear, I'm not Catholic, you guys. :lol: I've simply read enough to play devil's advocate for many groups, including those that aren't Christian. But when it comes to Roman Catholics, Eastern and Greek Orthodox, Coptics, and other older order groups I feel they have been seriously misunderstood.


What's more, even when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra he certainly doesn't represent all of the rest of Christendom, that isn't Roman Catholic. In Latin, heresy means "difference", and trust me there was a lot of difference to go around.


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Pepe
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19 Jul 2015, 7:38 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
If you don't feel that my characterization is fair, I invite you to disregard it. However, I am certain that anyone truly familiar enough with Dawkins should know, especially given some of the recorded debates he has been in (with Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig, for example), that he really has confused existentialism and epistemology like I've said. If you'd like, I can drudge up some references for you from somewhere, of his debates and his comments towards Craig actually disparaging the whole practice of philosophy.


I'm more interested in getting to the truth...

I'm assuming they are youtube podcasts...
I'll search around...

Could you:
A. Define both "existentialism" and "epistemology" in the context of our discussion here...
B. Explain where you think Richard Dawkins got it wrong...



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20 Jul 2015, 7:39 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
However, I am certain that anyone truly familiar enough with Dawkins should know, especially given some of the recorded debates he has been in (with Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig, for example), that he really has confused existentialism and epistemology like I've said. If you'd like, I can drudge up some references for you from somewhere, of his debates and his comments towards Craig actually disparaging the whole practice of philosophy.


Is this one of the podcasts?:



Pepe
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20 Jul 2015, 9:06 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
Why are so many militant atheists incredibly ignorant of the people they are criticizing? And why do you think they normally target Christianity here in the west, as opposed to all of the other religions?


I didn't think to mention that I was very surprised to come across one of Richard Dawkins's podcasts (4 or 5 years ago?) where he went to the middle east to discuss atheism with a Muslim cleric.
At the time I thought it was an act of bravery...
I still do... :wink:

There are those who would order the assassination of a cartoonist...
Richard Dawkins is probably the most famous atheist in the universe...
And with that title comes the association with concepts which may be deemed heretical by some extreme theists...



aghogday
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20 Jul 2015, 11:19 am

Thanks, for providing that interesting debate that includes more FOLKS IN IMPORTANCE OF TRUTH; than Craig and Dawkins.

At the time scale of 1:31.11, the young Asian or Pacific Islander woman, has the answer and that is WE are the 'eyes' of 'GOD'; some brighter and some dimmer; and the gentlemen that suggests that the essence of the Universe is vibrational music through 11 dimensions of hyper-space is SPEAKING no different really than my short free verse poem that I already provide in this thread that poetically speaks to dark, light, movement, and sound as GOD exists now in ACTION VERB, instead of Abrahamic noun; along with lyrics of poetry that sing in music to a core of the human mind and body in balance at highest levels of expressing VIBRATIONAL Truth and Light of reality as 'Human Forest'.

The rest of the Video provided, is human tribal instinct expressed more or less, in complicated mechanical cognition; where I am right and you are wrong and my team is better than yours; 'nana nana nana'; I can't hear what you are saying kinda stuff.

It takes folks who are reAlly LIVING NOW IN FLESH AND BLOOD ACTION LIFE, out of some Illusional Academic and or Theological Ivory Tower, to come up with the simple answers of Truth and Light in what CAN and WILL make this HUMAN life GREAT as opposed to suffering and misery and a potential earlier grave. Human beings can create their own purposes in life with AND THROUGH Imagination and Creativity IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE coming from depths as great as the giants of Philosophy and Arts, IN GENERAL, have done through history; AND potentiAlly MORE.

Some never attain the 'Forest of Human Life' for becoming blind for seeing trees WITHOUT FOREST.

My Anthropological study-time on this Internet site is particularly fascinating, as I share my philosophical insights (the same exact ones) here with systemizing minds and (the same exact ones) with poets across the International online arena of poetry.

And in empirical evidence, I am able to document where my insights here are described as incoherent and even moderated out of the conversation, as such; whereas, the same insights as assessed by creative poets is described as profound genius; as documented currently on my latest 14.3K Epic Free verse poetry blog post; that yes, even without linking it to poetry sites is assessed as such by a poet who is able to read all 14,333 words assessing the poem as one of THE LONGEST BUT one of the best in great detail in poetic response, as well.

The point is this; some folks create purpose in life and thrive; and some folks do not.

This overall ACTION force of reality that some folks call NATURE and some folks call GOD is never before or after; when it comes to reality NOW; AND what potentiAlly makes life great in lemonade as opposed to sour lemons.

There is A WHOLE LOT OF LEMONS IN THAT PODCAST; and some lemonade that makes the medicine of life go down like bliss for those of us who master life's REALITY WITH GOD NOW, as ourselves, THROUGH imagination and creativity in mind and body balance.

It works for me with practice in action; written words describe; but written words are only cultural byproducts as tools. Life starts in flesh and blood away from the illusion of written words alone; as well as other cultural byproducts as human tools that aid comfort or create misery and suffering in life..:)

God is reality as Nature NOW in action VERB, and so am I..:)

Anyway, this is a fascinating discussion and hopefully this makes enough sense where it does not get moderated out. I AM SINCERELY and SERIOUSLY DOING MY FRIGGING BEST.

Smiles; and with all due respect; no hard feelings from me on the way folks treat me, overall on this site, for the last 56 months, as they literally do, as I prove in irrefutable fact they simply know not what they do; and yes, some folks here by there own metaphorical poetic EXPRESSIONS in heart, spirit, and soul assess my communication as having no problems understanding me at all.

Problem IS when only one or two 'types' of Autistic speaking folks are provided freedom of expression in discussing philosophy as truly the answers in philosophy are poetry and NOT SCIENCE ALONE. However; it is like Plato's cave; not all live in the same cave and that is the greatest truth of all, when it comes to human beings, WITH understanding in cognitive empathy as well as the affective empathy of tolerating and accepting others for a FULL SPECTRUM OF HUMAN DIVERSITY IN working reciprocal social communication; WHERE communication can be validated and clarified with due acceptance, tolerance, and most importantly PATIENCE TO hear ALL OF WHAT other human beings have to say.

Sometimes folks eyes light up with joy when I speak to them in real FLESH AND BLOOD life; others just nod and say hmm, OK.

But at least the second group is tolerating me and not slapping me across the face; but of course in real life my size and strength excludes that option in ALL CASES SO FAR; smiles; BEING an alpha male in true life effect and affect helps a person to speak their mind in terms of flesh and blood.

AND IF anyone doubts I make a REAL CASE-STUDY for Alpha male, the evidence is more than flesh and blood clear in a special full color link in a blog post of mine titled, 'Staycation Breeze', as when I express that side of my human flesh and blood being; even so-called thugs do NOT wanna meet me in a dark alley; but if one is brave enough they can assess that pArt on their own; as I am in this anthropological study of GOD and human alike IN PROVIDING plenty of documented evidence for clear case-study perusal by the ART AND science oriented minds among us that yes; believe it or not, includes me; for dam sure, still now; even enhanced since I expand human potential mind and body in balance with imagination and creativity AS ART, far beyond my 'computer brain'; before 30 months or so ago..:)

And no, I do not have to speak anything special to show my strength; fearless speaks with no words at all, in real FLESH AND BLOOD life, at least; it is truly A greatest privilege there in life; as God of Nature is a God of Love and Courage too; in all that manifests in human life; and if anyone thinks they are more than the pecking order of the Animal Kingdom; THAT IS the greatest God Delusion of all; and part of why the Internet is so popular for SOME folks as it allows them to puff up their 'illusional fur'; smiles; my fur is literally and metaphorically REAL, and yes, I understand my privilege clearly and remain humble in flesh and blood life, without too much satire, AS I am once a fragile and weak pecking order human too, in flesh and blood life..:)

LIFE SPENT twice as such in the same life; is also an incredible flesh and blood tool of personal case-study reference for my life-long Anthropological study, in ALL stuff human and GOD of Nature, overALL.

But anyway; thanks again, for that inspiring Video AND have a great NOW in mind and body balance, if you will, of course..:)


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Fnord
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20 Jul 2015, 1:05 pm

As of the time of this post, those who responded to the poll are three times more likely to base their beliefs on Science rather than mere spirituality.

Go Science!



slave
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20 Jul 2015, 2:00 pm

In my experience, most anti-science individuals I've encountered do not understand Science or logic or reason or Philosophy and are therefore against the "unknown". They usually were raised by anti-science people and are living what they have learned which is anti-science rhetoric and fallacies.