Page 46 of 108 [ 1723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 ... 108  Next

RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

14 Jan 2017, 6:26 pm

Diabolikal wrote:
If I can step in, I think a big problem is idiots like you guys, who keep using the terms "SJW" that f*****g frame the narrative, into Manichean insanity, and we keep getting polarization and goddammit, I've had enough of this f*****g BS about "SJWs" and systems and Trumpers and arrogant as*holes, who think they're the last word (as seen on just the first page), aargh! I see boards like this and wonder "you know, maybe we should just kill all humans, then the universe will be better." Just, closed loops of thought, framing everything in pejorative language, and it's all sides, including you! I would also like to say, that after reading these, I no longer have any desire to claim spectrum stuff as part of a group I'd like to be part of.
Of course we must be careful not to become as dogmatic as they are. We must be careful not to spread fear unduly as they do. We must be careful not to implicate all women for the actions of a few, even as they implicate all men for the actions of a few. Just because they lower the bar that gives us no right to sink to their level.

We must maintain the moral high ground. Not should, must. This is because we cannot call them out on their misdeeds if we've done the same things. So long as we don't lie and don't exaggerate, then eventually the truth will be revealed.

Yes I know there are redpill sites where the men turn into the stereotypical misogynists some feminists imagine all men are. Those redpill guys are overcompensating in the extreme. Just because they want to get even with women. Even if a very small minority of women truly hate men, that gives the redpillers no just cause to seek revenge.

SJW dogma can harm women just as much as it can harm men. Shedding light on the SJW disinformation machine will benefit men and women both.

I don't want to get even with women. I want to make peace with women.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

14 Jan 2017, 6:42 pm

One of the ways in which feminism can be harmful to women is that unscrupulous marketeers can hijack it to sell women things they don't need under the guise of "women's empowerment".

Here's an example.

Quote:

Big Tobacco Uses “Feminism” to Help Them Kill Women

Image
Films and editorials often glamourise smoking, like this image of actress Diane Kruger for GQ Magazine.Films and editorials often glamourise smoking, like this image of actress Diane Kruger for GQ Magazine.

As someone who spends quite a lot of time eating muffins on the couch, I generally try to refrain from telling other people what they should and shouldn’t do with their bodies. I have friends who smoke, and occasionally (particularly after a few wines), I join them; I am not in a position to guilt trip. So let me clear something up right now: this is not a lecture. This is just a little information and one big truth: women only smoke because once upon a time, tobacco companies told us we should. We thought it was feminism, but it turned out to just be really, really smart, clever, murderous business. This is not a lecture. It’s just something you should probably know.

Historically, smoking was always a man’s thing. They sat in dimly lit smoking rooms after dinner, puffed on their pipes or their cigars and talked about sensible man stuff. Women were not allowed to join in: they sat in another room and tittered over their sewing. A woman smoking, then, was an inherently feminist thing: an empowering subversion, a defiant statement. The few who did were deemed social embarrassments; uncouth, and unfeminine.

At the turn of the century, tobacco companies like Philip Morris and Lucky Strike realised that the damn patriarchy was stopping them from tapping into a massive potential market. Luckily, that was when first-wave feminism came along. As women everywhere fought to have the same rights as men, tobacco companies had the perfect opportunity to market something to women that only men had previously been allowed to have: a smoking habit.

They reeled us in with three marketing tricks that women everywhere have always been and will continue to be suckers for: we were told that smoking was fashionable, that it would make men like us more, and that it would help us to be skinny.

Image
Image: MarketingLucky Strikes as a weight-loss tool increased the sales of their cigarettes by 300%.

To market cigarettes as fashionable, American Tobacco launched a more subconscious marketing campaign. They paid actresses and debutantes to be seen publicly smoking, and partnered with fashion magazines such as Vogue to ensure that the models within their pages were seen with a cigarette in hand. Lucky Strike even did a deal with Vogue to make green the ‘colour of the year’ so that their packaging would match ladies’ outfits for the rest of the decade (#fashun). At the time, an American Tobacco executive likened the advent of women smoking to, “opening a gold mine right in our front yard.”

It wasn’t until second-wave feminism during the 1960’s and 70’s that tobacco companies outwardly expressed their feminist sides. Their marketing message wasn’t subtle, but it was effective:

Image
Image: This Philip Morris ad used to say “You’ve come a long way, baby”, but they took the “baby” out once they realised how un-feminist they were being.

Cigarettes became the ultimate symbol of equality: of sass, of emancipation, of girl power. But the tobacco companies didn’t stop there; they reinforced their alliance with bra-burners everywhere by launching a massive sponsoring campaign. They sponsored women’s sporting events and donated to numerous women’s organisations. In 1987, Philip Morris and R. J. Reynolds donated more than four million dollars to nearly 200 Afro-American, Hispanic and women’s groups. When asked about the contribution made by these companies, the Women’s Campaign Fund Executive Director said, “They were there for us when nobody else was. They legitimised corporate giving for women’s groups, from my perspective”.

So are big tobacco companies the feminist heroes we never knew we had? No. What they really did was piggy-back on a very hard-fought social movement so that they could systematically addict the people who did most of the fighting to their cigarettes. What’s worse is that it was the early 1940’s that tobacco companies began discussing the possibility of cigarettes being carcinogenic: they knew (or at least suspected) that their products were killing people.

These days we all know that cigarettes are killing us, but that hasn’t really stopped anyone because, as most people can testify, it’s scarily easy to know you’re about to make a bad decision and then make it anyway.

Image
Image: An L&M ad targeted towards women.

But what’s even scarier is that big tobacco companies aren’t letting a little thing like lung cancer stop them from tapping into the last un-tapped market in the world: women in developing countries. In many developing countries gender inequality is still rife and often this means that women are subject to social constraints that most women in the Western World were freed from decades ago. This includes smoking: a survey in 2005 of women in India revealed that only 3.1% of them are smokers. The female markets in China and the Philippines are two others which are currently being specifically targeted by tobacco companies.

The main issue with this is that in developing, third world countries, levels of literacy amongst women, especially outside of the urban areas, remains quite low. However, their visual literacy remains very high: this means that they can understand the imagery in tobacco campaigns, but may not have access to or understanding of information regarding the dangers of smoking. The visual campaigns contain all of the same content that they did in the 1920’s – they suggest smoking will make women skinnier, that it will make men find them more attractive, and that it is the Western, fashionable thing to do. When discussing smoking with young women in Mangalore, anthropologist Mimi Nichter was told: “If you come back to India in ten years, all the professional women will be smoking!” Mimi asked why that would happen, and the answers included, “to be modern, to be free, to be like boys, for weight control, and for tension.”

As with all battles fought against big tobacco, there aren’t very many easy ways to fight this problem. They are just too big, too powerful and too good at what they do. This is not a lecture, and I don’t want to preach, but it’s worth asking what can be done to protect vulnerable women in the third world from falling down the treacherous rabbit hole that we’ve been trapped down for nearly one hundred years. For me, not picking up that cigarette on Saturday night after a glass of pinot gris or five might be a good start.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1024
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

14 Jan 2017, 8:01 pm

That is a terrible argument.

Advertisers can use absolutely anything to push product. That is not a reflection on the thing they are using.

Here's a crappy ad exploiting pride in America and anger over 9/11:
http://justicecoin.com/

The existence of this crappy ad doesn't somehow make American pride or anger over 9/11 harmful to Americans.

Likewise, the exploitation of Bible verses for a product like this:
http://www.orientaltrading.com/testamin ... _K294.fltr
...doesn't make a good argument for why Bible verses are harmful to Christians.


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

14 Jan 2017, 8:29 pm

Well of course no Christian has ever been harmed by Bible verses /sarcasm

True that it's not feminists' fault crappy advertisers use feminism but this is a vulnerability that needs to be patched.

If the lock on your front door has a vulnerability that could be used by thieves to get into your house, will say it's not the lock's fault when thieves take your stuff? Or will you get a better lock?

I don't want to blame feminists for this vulnerability in their system. I don't want to blame anyone. When a vulnerability is spotted, the solution is to fix the vulnerability, not point fingers in blame.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1024
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

14 Jan 2017, 10:17 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Well of course no Christian has ever been harmed by Bible verses /sarcasm

I think that would be an easy case to make but not with this "mad men misuse it" argument.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
True that it's not feminists' fault crappy advertisers use feminism but this is a vulnerability that needs to be patched.

No, it's irrelevant. Feminists can get on with pursuing equality before the law without concerning themselves with the antics of the copywriters and idea men at ad agencies.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
If the lock on your front door has a vulnerability that could be used by thieves to get into your house, will say it's not the lock's fault when thieves take your stuff? Or will you get a better lock?

Weird analogy, these thieves are setting up another house altogether and claiming to be in the house. No need for new locks, or even new cylinders.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I don't want to blame feminists for this vulnerability in their system. I don't want to blame anyone. When a vulnerability is spotted, the solution is to fix the vulnerability, not point fingers in blame.

It's not a vulnerability and there isn't a system. Feminism is a set of ideas. Some people have been trying lately to pass some bad ideas under the label, but the basic ideas are good. That's where the struggle is.

This ad stuff is utterly irrelevant.


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

15 Jan 2017, 1:14 am

How do women not have equality before the law?


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,245
Location: Long Island, New York

28 Jan 2017, 11:38 am

Bill Maher is an elitist snob, but below is a very good part of him.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

28 Jan 2017, 11:56 am

De jure equality does not equal de facto equality.

Federally, in a de jure sense, black (men) had the right to vote since 1865.

Within state contexts, blacks did not have the de facto right to vote until 1965.



Darmok
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,030
Location: New England

02 Mar 2017, 3:46 pm

Moral Outrage Is Self-Serving, Say Psychologists
Perpetually raging about the world's injustices? You're probably overcompensating.

When people publicly rage about perceived injustices that don't affect them personally, we tend to assume this expression is rooted in altruism—a "disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others." But new research suggests that professing such third-party concern—what social scientists refer to as "moral outrage"—is often a function of self-interest, wielded to assuage feelings of personal culpability for societal harms or reinforce (to the self and others) one's own status as a Very Good Person.

Outrage expressed "on behalf of the victim of [a perceived] moral violation" is often thought of as "a prosocial emotion" rooted in "a desire to restore justice by fighting on behalf of the victimized," explain Bowdoin psychology professor Zachary Rothschild and University of Southern Mississippi psychology professor Lucas A. Keefer in the latest edition of Motivation and Emotion. Yet this conventional construction—moral outrage as the purview of the especially righteous—is "called into question" by research on guilt, they say.


https://reason.com/blog/2017/03/01/mora ... lf-serving


_________________
 
There Are Four Lights!


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

02 Mar 2017, 4:14 pm

The term "Moral Outrage" applies equally to SJWs and to anti-SJWs.

I think SJWs and anti-SJWs are both fear-mongers. Both prone to exaggeration. Both cry oppression at every opportunity. Both sides think in dogmatic extremes.

I would like to see an end to this culture war. Let both sides meet in the middle. Let both sides acknowledge the others' good points and let both sides admit they were not always right.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

02 Mar 2017, 4:59 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
The term "Moral Outrage" applies equally to SJWs and to anti-SJWs.

I think SJWs and anti-SJWs are both fear-mongers. Both prone to exaggeration. Both cry oppression at every opportunity. Both sides think in dogmatic extremes.

I would like to see an end to this culture war. Let both sides meet in the middle. Let both sides acknowledge the others' good points and let both sides admit they were not always right.


Agreed.

"Outrage Culture" needs to die.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

04 Mar 2017, 11:44 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I would like to see an end to this culture war. Let both sides meet in the middle. Let both sides acknowledge the others' good points and let both sides admit they were not always right.


Maybe they can compromise and agree some people are only 3/5th real people? ;)


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

05 Mar 2017, 2:46 am

funeralxempire wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I would like to see an end to this culture war. Let both sides meet in the middle. Let both sides acknowledge the others' good points and let both sides admit they were not always right.
Maybe they can compromise and agree some people are only 3/5th real people? ;)
That would be an improvement, both for the mgtows who don't think women are real people and for the SJWs who don't think straight white cis males are real people.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

06 Mar 2017, 10:25 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
[...and for the SJWs who don't think straight white cis males are real people.


Not sure if this is a joke or just an absurd strawman. :lol:


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


BettaPonic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 918
Location: NOVA

06 Mar 2017, 9:24 pm

It seems that SJW are getting big control of college campuses today.



Darmok
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,030
Location: New England

08 Mar 2017, 1:00 pm

If it weren't for fake hate crimes made up by SJWs, there might be no hate crimes at all.

Ann Arbor woman pleads guilty to making up hate crime

ANN ARBOR, MI -- A 21-year-old Ann Arbor woman pleaded guilty as charged to one count of false report of a misdemeanor in 15th District Court on Monday, March 6.

Halley Bass admitted in court that she fabricated a story about a strange man scratching her face in downtown Ann Arbor on Nov. 15.

"I was suffering from depression at the time," Bass told Judge Elizabeth Pollard Hines. "I made a superficial scratch on my face. It was visible and I was embarrassed about what I'd done. So I made up a story and told a friend that a stranger had done it while I was walking. I was encouraged to report it to the police. I made the mistake of doing that."

At the time, Bass claimed her attack was part of the surge in hate crimes following the election of Donald Trump a week earlier. She told police she was targeted for wearing a solidarity pin connected to Great Britain's "Brexit" vote.

Bass admitted to scratching her own face with the pin after becoming upset during a Woman's Literature class at the University of Michigan, according to the Ann Arbor Police Department report.


http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/ind ... lty_1.html


_________________
 
There Are Four Lights!