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firemonkey
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07 Jan 2017, 7:44 am

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... story.html


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ASPartOfMe
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07 Jan 2017, 1:21 pm

No, in many ways they are not wrong.

These stats are by definition from the recent past. Fines for having no insurance have gone up as have fees and deductibles. Several companies have bailed out making for less competition which will mean higher rates and deductibles. Companies follow trends so other companies will probably bail also. If the economic recovery based on our ponzi scheme "too big to fail" economy and plain old greed, collapses that will not help either, maybe leading to a "death spiral"

Obamacare supporters can keep on invalidating the pain felt by a significant segment of Americans in part due to Obamacare if they want to, but that has lead to the situation we have now where Obamacare partially or completely will be dismantled and IMHO replaced chaotically with the old purely market-based system and a "death spiral" . If that happens it would be on the Republicans. Obamacare supporters can and will say "I told you so dumb hicks" while most Americans suffer while people such as the one who wrote the article fail to realize the part they played in the upcoming calamity because they are so damm smug.


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dquillman
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07 Jan 2017, 1:26 pm

You are correct. I find it funny that the Reps blame Obamacare for the rise in costs. The only one ACA does not work well for are small business owners.



LoveNotHate
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07 Jan 2017, 2:41 pm

dquillman wrote:
You are correct. I find it funny that the Reps blame Obamacare for the rise in costs. The only one ACA does not work well for are small business owners.

Millions of people have to pay the Obamacare penalty.

5.6 million people paid the penalty in 2015.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/ob ... es.html?_0

This is an assault on the poor and middle class.



ASPartOfMe
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07 Jan 2017, 4:17 pm

dquillman wrote:
You are correct. I find it funny that the Reps blame Obamacare for the rise in costs. The only one ACA does not work well for are small business owners.


And many who need to buy insurance for themselves and are not eligible subsidies. Even if they decide not to buy from the health exchanges they are paying more because of the mandates and because private companies need to follow the market which is partially set by the Health Exchange competition.


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auntblabby
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11 Jan 2017, 2:32 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
dquillman wrote:
You are correct. I find it funny that the Reps blame Obamacare for the rise in costs. The only one ACA does not work well for are small business owners.

Millions of people have to pay the Obamacare penalty.

5.6 million people paid the penalty in 2015.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/ob ... es.html?_0

This is an assault on the poor and middle class.

not exactly. the IRS lets you file an exemption form 8965 for a long list of reasons including the premiums on the exchange being more than 8% of your income.



Kraichgauer
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11 Jan 2017, 10:22 pm

The Republican right wants to get rid of Obamacare because they actually believe the poor are taking advantage of the taxpayers (right wing Republicans to be exact), believing the poor should be left to their own devices due to their own "laziness." Oh, they may talk about the financial strain on ordinary Americans, but that's just a pretext for cutting off people who they see as undeserving.


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auntblabby
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11 Jan 2017, 10:31 pm

I put nothing past this current crop. NOTHING. not when you have people in his administration who think the "cure" for autism is to beat kids up.



EzraS
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12 Jan 2017, 2:47 am

My knowledge of Obamacare comes from my working class aunt. I'm not sure if I have ever seen someone who's a working class individual who currently stands up for Obamacare. It seems like those who endorse it, haven't experienced what my aunt and millions of working class individuals like her have. It seems like it's usually someone who is outside of that loop.

For 25 years under two employers, my aunt and her hundreds of coworkers, got free healthcare with a very low deductible. It saw her through three surgeries and a heart condition. Plus just routine illnesses and injuries. She never had to think twice about going to the doctor.

Now she is stuck with a horrible healthcare plan that has huge monthly payments and a gigantic deductible. Meaning she has to pay thousands of dollars out of her own pocket, before her health insurance even begins to barely cover her. Now be honest, does that sound like a good healthcare system to you?

If you're a plain old worker, Obamacare is a nightmare disaster.

By the way, if your employer has a mandatory
Obamacare plan, you don't qualify for a subsidy or any other kind of discount.

Libs complain about the cost of needed boarder control, but seem perfectly fine with a 5 Billion dollar Obamacare website, that doesn't even work right. Yes, you read that right, Five Billion Dollars for a buggy website.


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auntblabby
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12 Jan 2017, 3:07 am

in this day and age, "plain old workers" most assuredly do NOT get "free healthcare" but instead one that potentially costs thousand of out-of-pocket costs each year, so anybody who says they get free healthcare is not a plain old worker but one lucky enough to work for a large employer that offers Cadillac plans such as regence blue cross/shield.



EzraS
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12 Jan 2017, 12:47 pm

auntblabby wrote:
in this day and age, "plain old workers" most assuredly do NOT get "free healthcare" but instead one that potentially costs thousand of out-of-pocket costs each year, so anybody who says they get free healthcare is not a plain old worker but one lucky enough to work for a large employer that offers Cadillac plans such as regence blue cross/shield.


Thousands of dollars out of pocket is what every working class person is dealing with now. The ones who were getting Cadillac plans from large employers, no longer have those, and are now also paying thousands of dollars out of pocket. How is that any kind of improvement?

Like I said, so far I have never (as far as I know) seen someone who has to work 40 or more hours per week doing a job that pays basic wages, saying they like Obamacare.

The only people who seem to be for it, are those who don't suffer from it.


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auntblabby
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12 Jan 2017, 5:12 pm

EzraS wrote:
Thousands of dollars out of pocket is what every working class person is dealing with now. The ones who were getting Cadillac plans from large employers, no longer have those, and are now also paying thousands of dollars out of pocket. How is that any kind of improvement? Like I said, so far I have never (as far as I know) seen someone who has to work 40 or more hours per week doing a job that pays basic wages, saying they like Obamacare.
The only people who seem to be for it, are those who don't suffer from it.

working class people (NOT lower middle class people like LPNs and teachers and mechanics and such, but mcjobs-type people caring for your children in daycare or serving your hamburger or mopping your floor) generally do not get health benefits outside of Obamacare, and if you ask them they will to a person tell you it is still better than the big fat nothing which existed for them pre-PPACA.



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12 Jan 2017, 6:29 pm

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Thousands of dollars out of pocket is what every working class person is dealing with now. The ones who were getting Cadillac plans from large employers, no longer have those, and are now also paying thousands of dollars out of pocket. How is that any kind of improvement? Like I said, so far I have never (as far as I know) seen someone who has to work 40 or more hours per week doing a job that pays basic wages, saying they like Obamacare.
The only people who seem to be for it, are those who don't suffer from it.

working class people (NOT lower middle class people like LPNs and teachers and mechanics and such, but mcjobs-type people caring for your children in daycare or serving your hamburger or mopping your floor) generally do not get health benefits outside of Obamacare, and if you ask them they will to a person tell you it is still better than the big fat nothing which existed for them pre-PPACA.


You're singin' to the choir, bro' Blabby!


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auntblabby
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12 Jan 2017, 6:31 pm

^^^^our lips to God's ears! he's the only one that can help us now that rump and company are ruining things.



pezar
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12 Jan 2017, 9:29 pm

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Thousands of dollars out of pocket is what every working class person is dealing with now. The ones who were getting Cadillac plans from large employers, no longer have those, and are now also paying thousands of dollars out of pocket. How is that any kind of improvement? Like I said, so far I have never (as far as I know) seen someone who has to work 40 or more hours per week doing a job that pays basic wages, saying they like Obamacare.
The only people who seem to be for it, are those who don't suffer from it.

working class people (NOT lower middle class people like LPNs and teachers and mechanics and such, but mcjobs-type people caring for your children in daycare or serving your hamburger or mopping your floor) generally do not get health benefits outside of Obamacare, and if you ask them they will to a person tell you it is still better than the big fat nothing which existed for them pre-PPACA.


The problem with O-care is that the working poor, the burger flippers and janitors, are getting lots of "free" goodies, but the middle class is getting taxed out the wazoo to pay for the healthcare needs of the working poor.

Obama promised the poor that the Wall Street billionaires would be the ones getting taxed, but of course the billionaires have the personal phone numbers of their politician buddies ready for dialing, so the politicians decided that since the middle class doesn't have friends in DC that they would pay for it.

The thing is, the middle class have been getting screwed for 50 years to pay for goodies given for "free" to the very poor and the very rich. The middle class has been taxed so much for so long that there really isn't a middle class in the US any more, most people who were middle class in the 60s have kids and grandkids who are desperately poor, who can't make ends meet no matter what they do, so they rely on debt or family generosity. The ones who don't have access to that are often homeless or living in extreme slum conditions.

The few jobs that exist don't begin to pay enough to cover a cost of living that keeps going up while wages go down. I am seeing more and more homeless camps out in the open in my "prosperous" city in California. They're camping in freeway interchanges and on sidewalks. The gentrification of downtown meant that the homeless were chased away, so the homeless moved to the decaying older suburbs. I myself only get by due to living with my mother. When she is gone I most likely will join the homeless.

The well is dry, there is no more income to tax, so the politicians are desperately printing money thinking that will solve the problem. That only causes hyperinflation.