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EzraS
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14 Nov 2017, 3:01 am

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Really? I think people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service industries constitute the working class. People who have jobs that don't require a college degree or even a high school diploma in many cases. People who live paycheck to paycheck. It seems like to you, anyone who rents a half way decent apartment and drives an economy car and makes around 2k per month are the middle class. I guess, I'm not sure. But it seems like you think only the absolute indigent deserve a break and everyone else owes them. And that the government should force mandates on people, while you bemoan facism.

people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service rarely got benefits with their mcjobs in the first place. I have never said only the indigent deserve social services, far from it. that is the case right now [street people getting tertiary medical care without having to pay for it, while the working poor are left to suffer or suffer a lifetime of ruined finances. hang together or separately. I am for the working poor. somebody who clears, as you said, 2k/month is hardly working poor, that is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. real working class folk lack job benefits or even regular hours. regular working class nowadays can't even describe their own roof over their own head, they more often than not must couchsurf with friends, or sleep in their cars. THAT is today's working class, not somebody with a regular gig with benefits. the "working class" people you are talking about existed in ralph kramden's day, but not for the last few decades here. indigent are those who lack even what little the real working class have. homeless AND carless are the indigent. but it seems me and thee will never agree on this or anything else.


The average rent for 600 sq ft apartment is 1000$. The average car payment for lets say a Corolla is 250$. Car insurance at least 100$ Utilities is about 150$. 200$ for gas and cheap food. Now add a mandatory 250$ healthcare premium for 10,000$ deductible insurance. 2k per month is hardly a good wage these days. It's a base salary for a common laborer working a shitty deadend job 40 hours a week.

still way above minimum wage which is all I ever rated 'cept for the time of being a civil servant. I don't know any "laborers" who made that much above minimum wage. I never had much healthcare at work but I never had to pay $250 for it [group plan] either.


Those making less than 24k a year but too much for a subsidy are even more screwed. And remember, thats 3,000$ a year in premiums, plus a 7,500$ to 10,000$ deductible.

So if a laborer racks up a 5,000$ in medical bills in a year, that means he pays the entire 5,000$ out of pocket, plus the exra 3000$ in premiums, bringing his total to 8,000$.

Thanks for making healthcare affordable obamacare.

Not to mention mandatory.


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RetroGamer87
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14 Nov 2017, 6:47 am

EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Really? I think people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service industries constitute the working class. People who have jobs that don't require a college degree or even a high school diploma in many cases. People who live paycheck to paycheck. It seems like to you, anyone who rents a half way decent apartment and drives an economy car and makes around 2k per month are the middle class. I guess, I'm not sure. But it seems like you think only the absolute indigent deserve a break and everyone else owes them. And that the government should force mandates on people, while you bemoan facism.

people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service rarely got benefits with their mcjobs in the first place. I have never said only the indigent deserve social services, far from it. that is the case right now [street people getting tertiary medical care without having to pay for it, while the working poor are left to suffer or suffer a lifetime of ruined finances. hang together or separately. I am for the working poor. somebody who clears, as you said, 2k/month is hardly working poor, that is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. real working class folk lack job benefits or even regular hours. regular working class nowadays can't even describe their own roof over their own head, they more often than not must couchsurf with friends, or sleep in their cars. THAT is today's working class, not somebody with a regular gig with benefits. the "working class" people you are talking about existed in ralph kramden's day, but not for the last few decades here. indigent are those who lack even what little the real working class have. homeless AND carless are the indigent. but it seems me and thee will never agree on this or anything else.


The average rent for 600 sq ft apartment is 1000$. The average car payment for lets say a Corolla is 250$. Car insurance at least 100$ Utilities is about 150$. 200$ for gas and cheap food. Now add a mandatory 250$ healthcare premium for 10,000$ deductible insurance. 2k per month is hardly a good wage these days. It's a base salary for a common laborer working a shitty deadend job 40 hours a week.

still way above minimum wage which is all I ever rated 'cept for the time of being a civil servant. I don't know any "laborers" who made that much above minimum wage. I never had much healthcare at work but I never had to pay $250 for it [group plan] either.


Those making less than 24k a year but too much for a subsidy are even more screwed. And remember, thats 3,000$ a year in premiums, plus a 7,500$ to 10,000$ deductible.

So if a laborer racks up a 5,000$ in medical bills in a year, that means he pays the entire 5,000$ out of pocket, plus the exra 3000$ in premiums, bringing his total to 8,000$.

Thanks for making healthcare affordable obamacare.

Not to mention mandatory.

So he's paying $3,000 per year for health insurance but he pays all his medical bills himself? If he has health insurance can't he make a claim?


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LoveNotHate
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14 Nov 2017, 7:28 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
So he's paying $3,000 per year for health insurance but he pays all his medical bills himself? If he has health insurance can't he make a claim?

He would use his insurance at the medical provider, however, only later will he find out if the insurer will cover it. Common procedures are likely covered at 70%-80%, unusual or very expensive ones, likely not.

My psychiatrist once took me to the ER to have me admitted, and they called the insurer and they wouldn't pay for it.



EzraS
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14 Nov 2017, 8:26 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Really? I think people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service industries constitute the working class. People who have jobs that don't require a college degree or even a high school diploma in many cases. People who live paycheck to paycheck. It seems like to you, anyone who rents a half way decent apartment and drives an economy car and makes around 2k per month are the middle class. I guess, I'm not sure. But it seems like you think only the absolute indigent deserve a break and everyone else owes them. And that the government should force mandates on people, while you bemoan facism.

people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service rarely got benefits with their mcjobs in the first place. I have never said only the indigent deserve social services, far from it. that is the case right now [street people getting tertiary medical care without having to pay for it, while the working poor are left to suffer or suffer a lifetime of ruined finances. hang together or separately. I am for the working poor. somebody who clears, as you said, 2k/month is hardly working poor, that is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. real working class folk lack job benefits or even regular hours. regular working class nowadays can't even describe their own roof over their own head, they more often than not must couchsurf with friends, or sleep in their cars. THAT is today's working class, not somebody with a regular gig with benefits. the "working class" people you are talking about existed in ralph kramden's day, but not for the last few decades here. indigent are those who lack even what little the real working class have. homeless AND carless are the indigent. but it seems me and thee will never agree on this or anything else.


The average rent for 600 sq ft apartment is 1000$. The average car payment for lets say a Corolla is 250$. Car insurance at least 100$ Utilities is about 150$. 200$ for gas and cheap food. Now add a mandatory 250$ healthcare premium for 10,000$ deductible insurance. 2k per month is hardly a good wage these days. It's a base salary for a common laborer working a shitty deadend job 40 hours a week.

still way above minimum wage which is all I ever rated 'cept for the time of being a civil servant. I don't know any "laborers" who made that much above minimum wage. I never had much healthcare at work but I never had to pay $250 for it [group plan] either.


Those making less than 24k a year but too much for a subsidy are even more screwed. And remember, thats 3,000$ a year in premiums, plus a 7,500$ to 10,000$ deductible.

So if a laborer racks up a 5,000$ in medical bills in a year, that means he pays the entire 5,000$ out of pocket, plus the exra 3000$ in premiums, bringing his total to 8,000$.

Thanks for making healthcare affordable obamacare.

Not to mention mandatory.

So he's paying $3,000 per year for health insurance but he pays all his medical bills himself? If he has health insurance can't he make a claim?


He can. But the coverage doesn't kick in until the deductible is met. So if he has a 5000$ hospital bill and a 7500$ deductible, it's not covered.

Now if he has a 20,000$ hospital bill. Then he covers the first 7500$ of that and 50% of the remainder, which would be 6250$.

So for a 20,000$ hospital bill his insurance will cover 6250$ of it. He ends up paying 13,750$.

However, if you add in the 3000$ he makes in payments, actually only 3250$ out of 20,000$ is covered.

Not much of a bargain is it?


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EzraS
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14 Nov 2017, 8:38 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
So he's paying $3,000 per year for health insurance but he pays all his medical bills himself? If he has health insurance can't he make a claim?

He would use his insurance at the medical provider, however, only later will he find out if the insurer will cover it. Common procedures are likely covered at 70%-80%, unusual or very expensive ones, likely not.

My psychiatrist once took me to the ER to have me admitted, and they called the insurer and they wouldn't pay for it.


Far as I know my aunt's policy only covers 50% in most cases of what's covered. There's only 70-80% coverage for some preventive procedures like a mammogram or colonoscopy.


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cathylynn
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14 Nov 2017, 1:49 pm

EzraS wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
So he's paying $3,000 per year for health insurance but he pays all his medical bills himself? If he has health insurance can't he make a claim?

He would use his insurance at the medical provider, however, only later will he find out if the insurer will cover it. Common procedures are likely covered at 70%-80%, unusual or very expensive ones, likely not.

My psychiatrist once took me to the ER to have me admitted, and they called the insurer and they wouldn't pay for it.


Far as I know my aunt's policy only covers 50% in most cases of what's covered. There's only 70-80% coverage for some preventive procedures like a mammogram or colonoscopy.


it's illegal now not to cover most prevention at 100%.



LoveNotHate
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14 Nov 2017, 2:47 pm

cathylynn wrote:
it's illegal now not to cover most prevention at 100%.

Even Obamacare platinum plans only pay 90% for the procedures they cover.



cathylynn
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14 Nov 2017, 3:27 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
it's illegal now not to cover most prevention at 100%.

Even Obamacare platinum plans only pay 90% for the procedures they cover.


that's illegal under obamacare. i know my pap smear, flu shot, and colon test were 100% covered. no copays.



RetroGamer87
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14 Nov 2017, 5:20 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
it's illegal now not to cover most prevention at 100%.

Even Obamacare platinum plans only pay 90% for the procedures they cover.

90%? My private health cover only pays 60%

But my medicare pays 100%, gives me unlimited free doctor visits and lowers the cost of all medications to $5 per packet, but it doesn't cover dental! :x :wall:


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cathylynn
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14 Nov 2017, 5:50 pm

and my mammogram was 100% covered.

here's a link to the tests that have to be free: https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/pre ... -benefits/



auntblabby
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14 Nov 2017, 9:02 pm

:brickwall: all these anti-Obama people here think they'll be just fine left to the non-mercies of the GOP and their non-plans for healthcare. they have not a clue as to what real financial pain is.



RetroGamer87
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14 Nov 2017, 9:07 pm

What will happen under Trumpcare?


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auntblabby
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14 Nov 2017, 9:45 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
What will happen under Trumpcare?

according to all the official analysis so far, 10s of millions of working-class yanks will lose [over a decade] any semblance of affordable health care. simple as that. but the rich will become richer.



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14 Nov 2017, 9:47 pm

While we're on the topic of healthcare, is there any rational explanation for Trump calling opiate addiction a disease yet supporting the extrajudicial killing of Philippine drug users?


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EzraS
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14 Nov 2017, 9:49 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
What will happen under Trumpcare?


Personally I have no idea at this time. The original plan sounded like it would be the same as ACA in most respects but better structured and more affordable. Lower premiums and much lower deductibles.

My aunt's healthcare plain through her employer was free (no monthly premiums). All she had to do was meet a 300$ deductible and then like 20/30% out of pocket after that. She had that for 20 years. In a huge service industry that mostly pays minimum wage or slightly higher.

In 2009 the government told her employer to stop providing that and the employer fought for an extension hoping obamacare would be repealed. The same in 2010. But finally they lost in 2011 and were forced to give their thousands of employees a horrible plan.

This was Trump's initial pitch:


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Last edited by EzraS on 14 Nov 2017, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.