Know your Enemy: Steve Bannon by Amy Goodman

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Adamantium
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05 Feb 2017, 11:18 am

Dox47 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
There is a lot of good insight into his methods and history there.


Did you like the part where he was buying supercomputer time on the cheap to dig up dirt on the Clintons from the dark web? Say what you will about the guy's personal beliefs, he's a fascinating character.


He really is.

One of the things I see in that story is a mental clarity, perhaps a kind of flexibility, that is lacking in many politicians.
Basically, they applied cutting edge data mining techniques to gathering dirt. Obama had in some ways outmaneuvered the Clintons by using social media and data mining to optimize grassroots networking and turn out the vote operations, and they seem to have failed to learn from that. But this focus on the deep web is a very clever way of applying appropriate technology to the problem at hand.

I admire that quality and respect him for it.

So many politicians are so hopeless about technology, it's a weakness they can no longer afford. How hard would it really be to use strong encryption for email in the core team?

I am looking forward to learning more about Bannon.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 11:20 am

adifferentname wrote:
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Well, that's the time and effort that I'm going to give you, take it or leave it. You choose to call me a liar for my perception of what you stated, but have not refuted me by presenting me with what are supposed to be your real views.


I didn't refute your misrepresentative claims because they're not my words, Bill. They're yours. I'm not obliged to defend any position I do not hold, especially one that you cannot demonstrate that I hold or have expressed. If you want your claim to stand, bring on the quotes.

The standard of evidence for someone's opinion is really simple, Bill. Anything I tell you is true or false about my opinion is coming from the ultimate authority on what those opinions are. If you wish to prove otherwise, you'll need compelling evidence. Where's yours? All you have is a repeated lie that you cannot substantiate. So yes, I'm going to call you out for your repeated lies and misrepresentation. If you don't like it, show me the goods or stop doing it. Simple, right?

Quote:
I'll just state these to points:
Milo of the unpronounceable last name clearly led wave after wave of neckbearded bigots to harass everyone from Leslie Jones to trans people. Why do you think that reprobate was banned from twitter? That is just a simple fact - as in opposite of alternate facts.


Provide evidence that he led, incited, encouraged or otherwise caused people to troll Leslie Jones. I'd settle for either A: direct quotes of him doing so or B: criminal charges of "harassment" as you've labelled it.

Quote:
Sure, the Alt Right has the right to say what they want, but they don't have the right to bully people.


Only if they do something that constitutes a crime, Bill. When they cross that line, give me a call, I'll be right alongside you. Until then, they have the same rights as you do to express your views, no matter how dishonest, mean, impolite, etc.

Quote:
And sure, they have the right to say as many outlandishly racist, homophobic, and transphobic sh*t they want, but the rest of us have the exact same right to counter them, and to expose them for what they are.


If you want to "expose them for what they are", I suggest you take some time to learn precisely what that is. You have a knack for the libellous, so I'd steer clear of the front lines.

Or you can join the "punch a Nazi" brigade. I really don't care either way.


I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


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adifferentname
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05 Feb 2017, 11:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.



Kraichgauer
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05 Feb 2017, 11:30 am

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


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05 Feb 2017, 11:46 am

Image


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adifferentname
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05 Feb 2017, 11:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?



beneficii
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05 Feb 2017, 11:58 am

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?


Hey, we have the right to our opinions, you know, or are you guys planning to strip us of them?


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05 Feb 2017, 12:07 pm

beneficii wrote:
Hey, we have the right to our opinions, you know, or are you guys planning to strip us of them?

Sure you have the right to your opinions, just be prepared to have them dissected and challenged.


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Adamantium
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05 Feb 2017, 12:07 pm

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/art ... ationalist

Quote:
"Like [Andrew] Jackson's populism, we're going to build an entirely new political movement," he told The Hollywood Reporter. "It's everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I'm the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it's the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Shipyards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We're just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution – conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement."

"If we deliver we'll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we'll govern for 50 years," he said. "That's what the Democrats missed, they were talking to these people with companies with a $9 billion market cap employing nine people. It's not reality. They lost sight of what the world is about."


Throwing it up against the wall and seeing if it sticks doesn't seem like a solid approach to the massive macroeconomic engineering project Bannon is outlining in this interview.

How do you get American shipyards and iron works running again? How are they supposed to compete against low labor cost competitors overseas? Unless Bannon has some secret means of restraining the invisible hand, basic economic forces say this vision is unworkable.


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Adamantium
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05 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?


Impressive concern for freedom of speech there.


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adifferentname
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05 Feb 2017, 12:15 pm

Adamantium wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?


Impressive concern for freedom of speech there.


On the contrary. I fully support Buzzfeed's right to publish libellous material. Likewise, I fully support the rights of the libelled to seek restitution.



adifferentname
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05 Feb 2017, 12:19 pm

beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?


Hey, we have the right to our opinions, you know, or are you guys planning to strip us of them?


Where would be the fun in that?

But seriously, you do have your right to your opinions, and you have the right to try and persuade people they're the best ones. As do I.

Incidentally, who is "you guys"? I presume to speak only for myself. My opinions are not representative of anyone but me.



beneficii
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05 Feb 2017, 12:32 pm

adifferentname wrote:
beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I feel like I'm talking to Sean Spicer.


I'm not interested in your feelings, Bill.


That's the problem with you people on the right.


The problem with people on "the right" is that they don't care about your feelings, Bill? Egocentric much?

I wonder what those members of PPR who actually do consider themselves "right wing" think of your using "right" as an insult for those who aren't. Seems rather bigoted to me, but I'm sure you have an evasive justification as to why that's okay when it's you doing it.

In the meantime, here's an object lesson for those who sling unsupported accusations around like rice at a wedding:

BuzzFeed sued over its publication of uncorroborated Trump dossier

Gawker 2.0 anyone?


Hey, we have the right to our opinions, you know, or are you guys planning to strip us of them?


Where would be the fun in that?

But seriously, you do have your right to your opinions, and you have the right to try and persuade people they're the best ones. As do I.

Incidentally, who is "you guys"? I presume to speak only for myself. My opinions are not representative of anyone but me.


Well, kraftiekortie (or was that Kraichgauer, I get them confused) in the other thread said that everyone in America, no matter what they say, is a member of one of 2 factions, the Clinton faction (the left) and the Trump faction (the right). Since I voted for Clinton, I represent the left, and since you support (and probably voted for) Trump, you represent the right.

It's like we're each a captain at the head of a large army, both of which have met to do battle, and we're negotiating terms.


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05 Feb 2017, 12:54 pm

beneficii wrote:
Well, kraftiekortie (or was that Kraichgauer, I get them confused) in the other thread said that everyone in America, no matter what they say, is a member of one of 2 factions, the Clinton faction (the left) and the Trump faction (the right). Since I voted for Clinton, I represent the left, and since you support (and probably voted for) Trump, you represent the right.


A common misconception around these here parts is that arguing against a position means you hold the diametrically opposite opinion or that you automatically belong to the other team. I "support" Trump as far as agreeing with those policies and expressed opinions which I agree with, as well as appreciating his ability to bulldoze through the identity fluff. And no, I don't vote in US elections.

Quote:
It's like we're each a captain at the head of a large army, both of which have met to do battle, and we're negotiating terms.


I'm an independent third-party mediator whose impartiality is being strained by the fact that one side accepts that I'm independent whilst the other is throwing it's excrement around indiscriminately and telling me I must be one of "them" because I don't look like one of "us" and I'm covered in faeces.

My own terms are pretty simple. Stop flinging excrement so we can have a dialogue. If you could pass that along to the large army of sh*t-sprinklers standing behind you I'd be most grateful.



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05 Feb 2017, 1:05 pm

Adamantium wrote:
http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-11-18/steve-bannon-im-not-a-white-nationalist-im-an-economic-nationalist

Quote:
"Like [Andrew] Jackson's populism, we're going to build an entirely new political movement," he told The Hollywood Reporter. "It's everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I'm the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it's the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Shipyards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We're just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution – conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement."

"If we deliver we'll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we'll govern for 50 years," he said. "That's what the Democrats missed, they were talking to these people with companies with a $9 billion market cap employing nine people. It's not reality. They lost sight of what the world is about."


Throwing it up against the wall and seeing if it sticks doesn't seem like a solid approach to the massive macroeconomic engineering project Bannon is outlining in this interview.

How do you get American shipyards and iron works running again? How are they supposed to compete against low labor cost competitors overseas? Unless Bannon has some secret means of restraining the invisible hand, basic economic forces say this vision is unworkable.


Are we believers of the invisible hand of the free market now? Bannon wants to spend a lot on infrastructure and negative interest rates are supposed to spur investment, are these things you support? How do other countries keep their industries? It seems protectionist policies can work and are used by pretty much every country with manufacturing. I think education is a very important thing to reform, part of the reason Germany has such a strong economy is the tiered education system that doesn't push every student into college. We need to be teaching kids trades that will get them jobs out of high school not whatever hyphenated-studies and a 100k in debt while not becoming any more employable. If public schools cannot prepare children for work then they should be abolished as we know them, the kids they're forcing into college are woefully unprepared. I am lucky I didn't go to a big school right out of high school, I would of probably dropped out and never get out of default but if there were actual jobs available to me then I probably would of never went in the first place and certainly not of come back like I am currently doing.


My idea is to scrap the income tax and replace it with a low across the board tariff, what is the difference between a tariff and a tax? The only thing I can think of is that the is another government involved that can retaliate whereas domestic taxpayers would need a revolution to challenge it. I really don't care if things we don't need anyways get more expensive if it produces a robust economy with a strong middle class and an open ladder of opportunity, I do not support rampant consumerism but rather saving & investing. American consumerism might generate a lot of economic activity and wealth for some but it's very unequal with almost everything being gained at the top which is why Obama's false recovery always rang so hollow with middle Americans. Wall Street recovered and then some multiple times over but Main Street didn't, it's been abandoned and neglected for decades instead.

Bannon doesn't sound very racist here btw, if you changed his name and put a D behind his name people would love him. The reason people voted Trump into office is his populist policies more so than the traditional fiscal conservative slate of issues we've c



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05 Feb 2017, 3:35 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Are we believers of the invisible hand of the free market now?

Always were. The basic supply and demand mechanisms are factual observations, not just political theories or wish fulfillment fantasies like Marxist schemes.

Jacoby wrote:
Bannon wants to spend a lot on infrastructure and negative interest rates are supposed to spur investment, are these things you support?

Yes. These are obviously both necessary and beneficial.

Jacoby wrote:
How do other countries keep their industries?

Exploitation of cheap labor, mostly. When macroeconomic forces work against them, they often don't.

Jacoby wrote:
It seems protectionist policies can work and are used by pretty much every country with manufacturing.

It's hard to tell, really.
Image

Jacoby wrote:
I think education is a very important thing to reform, part of the reason Germany has such a strong economy is the tiered education system that doesn't push every student into college.

Part of the reason Germany has such a strong economy is that they are selling manufactured goods to China, India and Russia, while taking advantage of low cost east European labor and low cost west European financing.

Jacoby wrote:
We need to be teaching kids trades that will get them jobs out of high school

Flipping burgers? Home health care aide? What trades are we talking about? If a company wants to build a fleet of bulk carriers or tankers, there are good reasons not to do it here, no matter what kind of social engineering Bannon wants to use.

Jacoby wrote:
Bannon doesn't sound very racist here btw, if you changed his name and put a D behind his name people would love him.
Here in New Jersey, he sounds pretty racist.

Jacoby wrote:
The reason people voted Trump into office is his populist policies more so than the traditional fiscal conservative slate of issues we've c
I agree. The people who voted Trump into office and Trump himself are not nearly as awful as some of the people he is surrounding himself with.

Bannon is neither a conservative nor a liberal but he is a right wing extremist who wants to tear down the current system and rebuild something more to his liking from the ruins. I think he will work for the economic interests of disenfranchised workers as long as that helps advance those goals.


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