2 Men in Indonesia Sentenced to Caning for Having Gay Sex

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Kraichgauer
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19 May 2017, 7:10 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The left isn't promoting Sharia intolerance for gays or anyone else, but rather is concerned that Muslim Americans are being demonized by bigots from both high and low places in this country. It's more a matter of defending everyone's right to worship.

One thing I got to think about with this today. Do we give the Ugandan Christians much of a break on their behavior in this regard for being African? In a hypothetical scenario where a group of Ugandan Christians came to the states and wanted to set up a town that went by Levitical law would we bend over backward to protect them as Africans or would our cultural familiarity with Christianity lead us to instantly call both their behavior and the bible BS? This is where the 'protect the brown person at all costs!' bit starts unraveling in coherence because I still think it depends which type of brown person, which religion, etc.. and I still don't understand how keeping American muslims safe means criticizing the behavior of their theocratic states extends as bigotry - even though the left does tend to play that game.


Plenty of those on the right associate Muslim Americans with autocratic Muslim states, and with terrorists. Just look at the support the right gave the Muslim ban.
And "protect the brown person at all cost?" Have you seen the ethnic makeup of American prisons? Or who it is who the police more often than not hassle, physically abuse, and even kill?


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techstepgenr8tion
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19 May 2017, 7:20 pm

I wasn't posting that to debate, it was more just something to chew on. I really had no illusion that it would be answered or attended to in any direct manner.


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Kraichgauer
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19 May 2017, 9:38 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I wasn't posting that to debate, it was more just something to chew on. I really had no illusion that it would be answered or attended to in any direct manner.


Okay, sorry. I didn't know it was meant to just be rhetorical.


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friedmacguffins
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20 May 2017, 2:54 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Do we give the Ugandan Christians much of a break on their behavior in this regard for being African?


No.

(Adult content warning.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On3etueeGIg

The West has actually sent so many advocates, to so may different countries, that we are assumed to be promoting it, proactively.

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When we think we are spreading freedoms, more-modest countries think we are spreading vices; there is no freedom from it. They want freedom from religion, but not freedom from sacrilege.



bumbleme
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24 May 2017, 2:33 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
I am surprised, Indonesia is a relatively progressive country in comparison to the rest of the Islamic world.


Apparently not...


My limited understanding is that Aceh has been a "special case". As in, the rest of Indonesia has been much more progressive while Aceh province has been under Sharia law. But recently hard line Islam is having a big impact in other areas (e.g. what happened to Ahok recently: he was the governor of Jakarta and a Christian. Now he is in jail for 2 years for blasphemy against Islam)



bumbleme
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24 May 2017, 2:39 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Indonesia seems like a terrible place to live...execution for so much as possession of drugs, severe beatings that could result in death for gay sex what else do they got going on there? But that said its another example of why separation of state and religion is a good thing, it prevents archaic laws and sentences like this being justified in the name of religious law.


Nah, it's OK to have drugs there... as long as you're the children of government officials or someone else high up.



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25 May 2017, 4:51 pm

Ever since Jokowi took power, Indonesia has gone to crap. First the Bali 9, this, and the big raid on the gay spa in Jakarta. I'm not sure who's worse, him or DuTurdTe.


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friedmacguffins
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01 Jun 2017, 4:17 pm

If it offends, why must it be done so openly and notoriously. For instance, how is the govt going to know whether a bunch of guys are having sex, in a hottub, or if they got high, in private.



Kraichgauer
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01 Jun 2017, 4:30 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
If it offends, why must it be done so openly and notoriously. For instance, how is the govt going to know whether a bunch of guys are having sex, in a hottub, or if they got high, in private.


That's Indonesia, where it seems freedom of privacy isn't what it is here.


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friedmacguffins
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02 Jun 2017, 11:14 am

There is no way for people to know what you are doing, in private, assuming that you're discrete, about mature situations. They can't possibly be looking in everyone's hottub or stash box.

I think, moderate tea-installers are rare. These people who are supposed to be evenhanded and practical.

Most are either completely paranoid or wallowing in their own crapulence. In my experience, they attract negative attention and deserve it.



StinkyDog
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02 Jun 2017, 1:41 pm

Meanwhile, over in the Philippines next door, gays very much dominate the entertainment industry.



Sweetleaf
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03 Jun 2017, 12:12 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
There is no way for people to know what you are doing, in private, assuming that you're discrete, about mature situations. They can't possibly be looking in everyone's hottub or stash box.

I think, moderate tea-installers are rare. These people who are supposed to be evenhanded and practical.

Most are either completely paranoid or wallowing in their own crapulence. In my experience, they attract negative attention and deserve it.


homosexuals deserve to be arrested and beaten/killed, because people decide to give them negative attention due to not being able to live and let live? Well that's a disgusting view to have...

That said they were having the sex in private, a couple other people became suspicious the couple was gay so they got a group together to sneak up on them when they were in a bedroom doing it in private...and burst in, catch them in the act and forcibly held them there till the authorities could come arrest them.


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StinkyDog
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03 Jun 2017, 3:00 pm

It is rather amazing how quickly we went, in America, from legalizing sodomy, to gays in the military, to gay marriage.



Kraichgauer
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03 Jun 2017, 3:08 pm

StinkyDog wrote:
It is rather amazing how quickly we went, in America, from legalizing sodomy, to gays in the military, to gay marriage.


And I am still proud how my state of Washington was the first to legalize gay marriage by popular vote. :D


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StinkyDog
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03 Jun 2017, 7:05 pm

By the way, parts of the USA are still quite backward, too.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/north-c ... is-demons/