How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

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GnosticBishop
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14 Nov 2017, 10:11 am

How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.

If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.

I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

Regards
DL



RetroGamer87
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14 Nov 2017, 6:33 pm

How can they ignore their god's immoral ways? Through wilful ignorance, that's how. I've spoken to Christians, I've pointed out the immoral things God does in the Bible. They say, God is morally perfect, therefor we cannot criticise him. That's not even an answer.

If God robbed a shopkeeper at gunpoint, these Christians would still say God did nothing wrong just because "God is morally perfect and we cannot question him".

If God was as morally perfect as they say, he wouldn't have done half the things he does in the Bible. Not only does he fall short of moral perfection, he falls below the moral standards of most human beings.

Look at what he does in the Bible, he enacts disproportionate revenge on people, he punishes people's descendants when they had no choice in their ancestors crimes (including all of humanity, who had no choice in Adam and Even eating the fruit), he punishes whole nations for the actions of the king, when his subjects had no say in it (e.g. Pharaoh in the Exodus story, e.g. King David for taking a census) and he even uses mind control to force people to commit crimes which he then punished them (and other people) for, e.g. "I will harden Pharaoh's heart".

He's openly jealous, he kills young children (such as the first born of Egypt, the children who were alive at the time of the flood, the children who inhabited Sodom and Gomorrah), he plays favourites (why does God need a chosen people, why not be god of everyone, why did the god of the whole universe only appear in a small part of the world), he creates laws condoning rape and slavery and he sends people to Hell for an infinite span of time as revenge (not punishment, revenge) for committing a finite number of sins.

It's clear that God's limited love is conditional. It was real nice of him to send his illegitimate son to save us from hellfire but that offer is conditional. We don't have sin less but we have to believe in him, even when no evidence is provided. That's a pretty tough condition for some. God's offer comes with strings attached. Perhaps God's love only extends to the credulous.

Christians say we shouldn't question God's choices because he is wiser than man, yet his actions in the Bible are the actions of a fool.

Is man wiser than God? Modern man is. Ever heard of the Flynn Effect? To put it simply it states that people are getting smarter over time. So while God's actions may appear foolish in comparison with modern man, they were on par with ancient man. Not better than, not worse than but equal too.

In other words God acts in the same way that ancient men from the Levant would act. He likes the same things they like and hates the same things they hate. Geez, what a coincidence! It seems both like ancient and modern religious leaders use God as their mouthpiece.

As a man, a priest has no moral authority, but if he says "God told me to tell you to do this and not do that", then the orders are unquestionable because they come from the perfect, infallible God, who can't possible make a mistake. Never mind that no one bothers to check if the priest actually received orders from God or if he made them up himself and just lied about having received them from God.


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GnosticBishop
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15 Nov 2017, 3:42 pm

An accurate post.

"Not only does he fall short of moral perfection, he falls below the moral standards of most human beings."

Indeed. I have pointed that out to many theists and get the usual, he is God, he can do whatever he likes, moral or not.

That is why I cannot fathom how they can go into intellectual dissonance, and more harmfully to a mind, moral dissonance.

They know God is immoral yet they do not seem to care. That is how guys like Hitler gain power.

As I said, I can appreciate the benefits of being in a religion but cannot understand moral dissonance and willful self-deception.

I seek a solution of formula to help them but have not found the key yet, let alone the door.

Note even here, Christians are avoiding moral discussion like a plague.

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DL



RetroGamer87
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15 Nov 2017, 3:51 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Indeed. I have pointed that out to many theists and get the usual, he is God, he can do whatever he likes, moral or not.

And afterwards they still say God has perfectly morality, even after they admited God does whatever he feels like. And after that, they still claim non-Christians have no morality because the Christian God is the source of all morality. How can he be the source of morality when he doesn't have any?


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GnosticBishop
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16 Nov 2017, 3:16 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Indeed. I have pointed that out to many theists and get the usual, he is God, he can do whatever he likes, moral or not.

And afterwards they still say God has perfectly morality, even after they admited God does whatever he feels like. And after that, they still claim non-Christians have no morality because the Christian God is the source of all morality. How can he be the source of morality when he doesn't have any?


Exactly why I wrote the O.P.

I wondered if there was an answer as to why believers go into intellectual and moral dissonance and traded morality for fellowship to those who follow a clearly immoral ideology.

Did you note how Christians run from answering for themselves on such questions.

Rhetorical question that as you have.

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DL



RetroGamer87
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16 Nov 2017, 3:59 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Did you note how Christians run from answering for themselves on such questions.

As I said before, it's wilful ignorance.

I'm glad for their wilful ignorance that allows them to live normal peaceful lives because if they said to themselves that God's law is perfect, including the hundreds of laws in the Old Testament, they might start following them 8O

Although I've met a small but vocal minority of Christians who, while not following the actual laws of the Old Testament, seemed to exemplify the fire and brimstone attitudes of the Old Testament. Being judgemental when the New Testament says not to judge, calling other people sinners when all are sinners, etc.

Fortunately I've also met Christians who have been very kind to me.


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16 Nov 2017, 4:13 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Did you note how Christians run from answering for themselves on such questions.

As I said before, it's wilful ignorance.

I'm glad for their wilful ignorance that allows them to live normal peaceful lives because if they said to themselves that God's law is perfect, including the hundreds of laws in the Old Testament, they might start following them 8O

Although I've met a small but vocal minority of Christians who, while not following the actual laws of the Old Testament, seemed to exemplify the fire and brimstone attitudes of the Old Testament. Being judgemental when the New Testament says not to judge, calling other people sinners when all are sinners, etc.

Fortunately I've also met Christians who have been very kind to me.


Me too and when I find one, I thank all the Gods that all Christians are not like their God even though they are supposed to emulate him.

I find ex Christians like that more than Christians. They do not sit on the fence and seek better morals than what Christianity offers.

Regards
DL