Is being gay wrong?

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Nayashi,

Just about any thread that addresses homosexuality in this forum ends up heated. At least people have the sense to keep their heated views here and not spread it all over the site. If you are concerned about divides being created from homosexual members geting offended at threads like this, don't be. To the best of my knowledge, Fogman is the first gay guy to get involved in these debates. For some strange reason, it's almost always straight people arguing their opinions about homosexuality. Liberal heterosexuals championing the gay agenda has always seemed bizare and pointless to me. It's happened many times before, it will probably happen again, and like always, as long as there are no personal attacks, everybody will go back to being civil and polite to each other in the other forums.

If by the 'gay agenda' you mean equal treatment and freedom from harassment/intolerant people forcing their opinions of their sexuality on others, why would it seem bizarre? The liberals you despise see equality and freedom as something worth arguing for, regardless of whether it affects them directly - therefore it is never pointless to challenge bigotry or ignorance.

Dunc

edit: By the way, you were wrong about this being the first time anyone other than a liberal heterosexual has got involved - you should check the other thread in the mature forum Sean.

Waht would you have the gays do Sean? Force themselves to be with women?

20 Points for you.

Last edited by nayashi on 20 Jul 2005, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I worked hard to edit my posts of personal stabs and chose to instill the words "I think" and "I feel" to them as well. I would recommend anyone else do the same too. I am normally the one to incite the riots around here but I'll work on easing that reputation up a bit. If you want to argue for or against, start bringing up some educated points or something close.
The personal firefights are developing here now.

The post is in the right spot..talk it out. Almost everything from page 4-6 here is nothing but stupid arguing. The train has derailed! Get back on the track folks.

Sean, this is not a personal attack. I rather admire the way you stand up for what you believe, and argue your points intelligently. However this is mainly in response to your statements.

It frustrates me to no end that people are able to justify saying that something is right or wrong, based on what is said in the bible, or rather based on one or two instances in which a person or group was "punished by God"
Wouldn't the circumstances be slightly different in each scenario?
How can we be sure just what was being punished?
If we accept a God that is spirit, and particularly the spirit of unconditional love, then how can we condemn someone based solely on their actions. Would not their spirit be the deciding factor.

I think one misconception is that homosexuality is all about sex.
I am certainly attracted to females for at least a few reasons other than compatible body parts.

In addition, men and women use their sexuality for more than just procreation or satisfaction of lust. It is a way to bond, and express love isn't it?
Why should I assume that homosexuals are any different, just because they can not procreate? Is it on par with the catholic church's anti-contraceptive stance?

Exactly. Homosexualality is not all about sex. It's about how they love. Sean, if someone asked you "could you fall in love with a man?" you would say no, right? A gay man is incapable of falling in love with a woman. A gay woman is incapable of falling in love with a man.

It's really not about sex. Sex is simply how they express their love.

You are exactly right, nayashi and spacemonkey. My mum's best friend is gay. He hates sex. He just wants a companion...a male companion.

An asexual homosexual??? That sounds like a paradox, maybe even an oxymoron!

He loves men romantically, he just doesn't want to 'do it' with anybody. Do you think it is possible to be an asexual heterosexual? A person who doesn't like sex can be in love with someone, can't they?

I think the reason few gay people are interested in debating the merits of homosexuality with straight people is because:
1) The debate has been going on in public for decades and there's not much left to be said. The science has been explained and the biblical references used to suggest that "God hates fags" have been thoroughly debunked (generally by showing how selectively the scripture is applied). When science and rhetoric loses to dogma and invective then there's little point in further discussion.
2) For the straight people, debates about homosexuality are a minor diversion. When you get tired of the debate you'll go find some other minority to oppress and your brethren will step in to pick up where you left off. For those of us who live in the queer world, opression is systematic and constant. If we were to engage in debate with every bigot who called us names and tried to take away our humanity then we would have no time left for anything else. Some debates are worth our time and some aren't.

(I'm glad I found a worthy topic for post # 500!)

One more point: If I waste my time defending my right to be queer, that's a tacit acknowledgement that I need your approval. Approval may be important to the teenager who's just coming to terms with his/her sexual orientation and is still immersed in a culture of peer pressure, but with maturity comes the realization that lasting self-worth comes from within.

jetson - best post on this thread so far. fabulous!

i think i prefer your "systemic" to "institutionalised", which is a word often used, but yours is better.

read your point 2, and thought, "YES!! THAT's what i feel like about sexism." (not trying to hijack, incidentally - just how i perceive most of the "isms" to be - and i'm not black or gay, ot THAT old (etc.), so i can only speak from the "sexism" point of view). it's that feeling of "here we go again..."

An inspiring thought for any Aspie!

Jetson--you are wonderful.