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Tim_Tex
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13 Oct 2012, 9:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When you have a gun rack in your pickup truck.


Here in the Pacific Northwest, you can be a liberal, and still have a gun rack in your pickup truck. Former Gov. Lowry here in Washington made just that point.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not a Pacific Northwesterner, but Harry Reid was against abortion, initially against same-sex marriage, and wanted to ban legal prostitution in Nevada.


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Kraichgauer
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13 Oct 2012, 10:10 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When you have a gun rack in your pickup truck.


Here in the Pacific Northwest, you can be a liberal, and still have a gun rack in your pickup truck. Former Gov. Lowry here in Washington made just that point.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not a Pacific Northwesterner, but Harry Reid was against abortion, initially against same-sex marriage, and wanted to ban legal prostitution in Nevada.


The abortion issue had once been a non-partisan issue. Republicans like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice, and Democrats like the Rev. Jesse Jackson had been pro-life. Then Reagan came along and made being pro-life a Republican party plank, which meant the Democrats felt compelled to become pro-choice.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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14 Oct 2012, 12:59 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The abortion issue had once been a non-partisan issue. Republicans like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice,


:huh: Do you have a source for that? I've never heard that.


Kraichgauer wrote:
and Democrats like the Rev. Jesse Jackson had been pro-life. Then Reagan came along and made being pro-life a Republican party plank, which meant the Democrats felt compelled to become pro-choice.


I'm pretty sure that the Republican Party adopted a pro-life platform before Reagan. Yes, there have been a few Democrats that were pro-life (Jesse Jackson being one) and there have been a few Republicans that were pro-choice. But the numbers are insignificant. The Republicans have been fundamentally pro-life and the Democrats pro-choice since it became an issue in the 1960s-70s. The line is so drawn, that pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.



Tim_Tex
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14 Oct 2012, 2:40 am

Max000 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The abortion issue had once been a non-partisan issue. Republicans like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice,


:huh: Do you have a source for that? I've never heard that.


Kraichgauer wrote:
and Democrats like the Rev. Jesse Jackson had been pro-life. Then Reagan came along and made being pro-life a Republican party plank, which meant the Democrats felt compelled to become pro-choice.


I'm pretty sure that the Republican Party adopted a pro-life platform before Reagan. Yes, there have been a few Democrats that were pro-life (Jesse Jackson being one) and there have been a few Republicans that were pro-choice. But the numbers are insignificant. The Republicans have been fundamentally pro-life and the Democrats pro-choice since it became an issue in the 1960s-70s. The line is so drawn, that pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.


I would imagine that the GOP became pro-life when the neocon era of the Party began (from Reagan onwards)


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Max000
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14 Oct 2012, 10:44 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The abortion issue had once been a non-partisan issue. Republicans like George Bush Sr. had been pro-choice,


:huh: Do you have a source for that? I've never heard that.


Kraichgauer wrote:
and Democrats like the Rev. Jesse Jackson had been pro-life. Then Reagan came along and made being pro-life a Republican party plank, which meant the Democrats felt compelled to become pro-choice.


I'm pretty sure that the Republican Party adopted a pro-life platform before Reagan. Yes, there have been a few Democrats that were pro-life (Jesse Jackson being one) and there have been a few Republicans that were pro-choice. But the numbers are insignificant. The Republicans have been fundamentally pro-life and the Democrats pro-choice since it became an issue in the 1960s-70s. The line is so drawn, that pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected.


I would imagine that the GOP became pro-life when the neocon era of the Party began (from Reagan onwards)


Well, that is your right to "imagine" that, but I don't think what you imagine it consistent with facts. The Republican party has always been pro-life and the Democratic Party has always been pro-choice. It part of the basic core ideology of the two parties.



TM
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14 Oct 2012, 10:56 am

Max000 wrote:

Well, that is your right to "imagine" that, but I don't think what you imagine it consistent with facts. The Republican party has always been pro-life and the Democratic Party has always been pro-choice. It part of the basic core ideology of the two parties.


Yes and no, there was a drastic change from the Republican party from 1900 - 1975 and the Republican party from 1975 - 2012. While some things stayed rather constant, most of it changed. From fiscal policy, where Republicans used to be quite conservative, the view of science in the party, and it's rampant anti-intellectualism of newer date.



Max000
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14 Oct 2012, 1:34 pm

TM wrote:
Max000 wrote:

Well, that is your right to "imagine" that, but I don't think what you imagine it consistent with facts. The Republican party has always been pro-life and the Democratic Party has always been pro-choice. It part of the basic core ideology of the two parties.


Yes and no, there was a drastic change from the Republican party from 1900 - 1975 and the Republican party from 1975 - 2012. While some things stayed rather constant, most of it changed. From fiscal policy, where Republicans used to be quite conservative, the view of science in the party, and it's rampant anti-intellectualism of newer date.


I don't disagree with that. When I said "always", I was talking a few years before 1975 to now. I believe that before 1968 abortion was a total non political issue in the US. The Republican party jumped on the pro-life bandwagon after Roe v. Wade, (1973).



ArrantPariah
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14 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm

Max000 wrote:
The Republican party jumped on the pro-life bandwagon after Roe v. Wade, (1973).


Not really until Reagan. Prior to that, most Republicans were pro-choice. Including Bush Sr.



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14 Oct 2012, 3:08 pm

Always found the anti-choice rehtoric of the new (Evangelical) Republican Party to be absolutely-bizarre, given how freely they spew coldly Libertarian rhetoric on practically everything else.


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14 Oct 2012, 3:44 pm

-Tax breaks for the rich are the rising tide that lifts all boats while welfare is the anchor that sinks all yachts



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14 Oct 2012, 3:45 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Always found the anti-choice rehtoric of the new (Evangelical) Republican Party to be absolutely-bizarre, given how freely they spew coldly Libertarian rhetoric on practically everything else.


The Republicans were not always dominated by reactionary evangelical Christians. Barry Goldwater, for example, was no right wing religious crazy. Some of his positions sound positively liberal. Goldwater was close to being a Libertarian except for his gung-ho Cold War positions.

ruveyn



AspieRogue

14 Oct 2012, 3:47 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
-Tax breaks for the rich are the rising tide that lifts all boats while welfare is the anchor that sinks all yachts



:lmao:



Apparently you do have a since of humor, AceOfSpades!



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14 Oct 2012, 3:52 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Always found the anti-choice rehtoric of the new (Evangelical) Republican Party to be absolutely-bizarre, given how freely they spew coldly Libertarian rhetoric on practically everything else.


The GOP needed to throw something to the evangelicals to keep them voting Republican.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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14 Oct 2012, 3:53 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
-Tax breaks for the rich are the rising tide that lifts all boats while welfare is the anchor that sinks all yachts



:lmao:



Apparently you do have a since of humor, AceOfSpades!
Thank you. Funny thing is, I actually thought likewise about you since I misinterpreted your post in the other thread as butthurt.



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14 Oct 2012, 4:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Always found the anti-choice rehtoric of the new (Evangelical) Republican Party to be absolutely-bizarre, given how freely they spew coldly Libertarian rhetoric on practically everything else.


The Republicans were not always dominated by reactionary evangelical Christians. Barry Goldwater, for example, was no right wing religious crazy. Some of his positions sound positively liberal. Goldwater was close to being a Libertarian except for his gung-ho Cold War positions.

ruveyn

Oh, I know.
John McCain condemned the growing religious hysteria of the party at one time...before he pandered to it in his Presidential bid.
Hillary Clinton campaigned for Barry Goldwater, when she was still a Republican.

My dad, being a non-religious, libertarian "bootstrapping" type, and "liberal" on social issues, is sad for me to think about, because he essentially has no party, anymore,
and hasn't for a number of years.

I don't particularly-identify with the majority of what passes for the modern left, either.
The extreme homogenization of American politics is what's more disenfranchising than any of the actual policies, I think.


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