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Was Judas Iscariot a Hero or a Heel?
Judas Iscariot was a Hero 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
Judas Iscariot was a Heel 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 7

pandabear
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01 Dec 2007, 8:28 am

I came across the article below in the New York times.

I thought that I would start a discussion on whether you consider Judas to have been a heel who sold out on Jesus for a few coins, or a hero who performed an essential role, without which Jesus might never have been crucified and ascended into Heaven, and thus would not be coming back to judge the quick and the dead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/opini ... ?th&emc=th

AMID much publicity last year, the National Geographic Society announced that a lost 3rd-century religious text had been found, the Gospel of Judas Iscariot. The shocker: Judas didn’t betray Jesus. Instead, Jesus asked Judas, his most trusted and beloved disciple, to hand him over to be killed. Judas’s reward? Ascent to heaven and exaltation above the other disciples.

It was a great story. Unfortunately, after re-translating the society’s transcription of the Coptic text, I have found that the actual meaning is vastly different. While National Geographic’s translation supported the provocative interpretation of Judas as a hero, a more careful reading makes clear that Judas is not only no hero, he is a demon.

Several of the translation choices made by the society’s scholars fall well outside the commonly accepted practices in the field. For example, in one instance the National Geographic transcription refers to Judas as a “daimon,” which the society’s experts have translated as “spirit.” Actually, the universally accepted word for “spirit” is “pneuma ” — in Gnostic literature “daimon” is always taken to mean “demon.”

Likewise, Judas is not set apart “for” the holy generation, as the National Geographic translation says, he is separated “from” it. He does not receive the mysteries of the kingdom because “it is possible for him to go there.” He receives them because Jesus tells him that he can’t go there, and Jesus doesn’t want Judas to betray him out of ignorance. Jesus wants him informed, so that the demonic Judas can suffer all that he deserves.

Perhaps the most egregious mistake I found was a single alteration made to the original Coptic. According to the National Geographic translation, Judas’s ascent to the holy generation would be cursed. But it’s clear from the transcription that the scholars altered the Coptic original, which eliminated a negative from the original sentence. In fact, the original states that Judas will “not ascend to the holy generation.” To its credit, National Geographic has acknowledged this mistake, albeit far too late to change the public misconception.

So what does the Gospel of Judas really say? It says that Judas is a specific demon called the “Thirteenth.” In certain Gnostic traditions, this is the given name of the king of demons — an entity known as Ialdabaoth who lives in the 13th realm above the earth. Judas is his human alter ego, his undercover agent in the world. These Gnostics equated Ialdabaoth with the Hebrew Yahweh, whom they saw as a jealous and wrathful deity and an opponent of the supreme God whom Jesus came to earth to reveal.

Whoever wrote the Gospel of Judas was a harsh critic of mainstream Christianity and its rituals. Because Judas is a demon working for Ialdabaoth, the author believed, when Judas sacrifices Jesus he does so to the demons, not to the supreme God. This mocks mainstream Christians’ belief in the atoning value of Jesus’ death and in the effectiveness of the Eucharist.

How could these serious mistakes have been made? Were they genuine errors or was something more deliberate going on? This is the question of the hour, and I do not have a satisfactory answer.

Admittedly, the society had a tough task: restoring an old gospel that was lying in a box of its own crumbs. It had been looted from an Egyptian tomb in the 1970s and languished on the underground antiquities market for decades, even spending time in someone’s freezer. So it is truly incredible that the society could resurrect any part of it, let alone piece together about 85 percent of it.

That said, I think the big problem is that National Geographic wanted an exclusive. So it required its scholars to sign nondisclosure statements, to not discuss the text with other experts before publication. The best scholarship is done when life-sized photos of each page of a new manuscript are published before a translation, allowing experts worldwide to share information as they independently work through the text.

Another difficulty is that when National Geographic published its transcription, the facsimiles of the original manuscript it made public were reduced by 56 percent, making them fairly useless for academic work. Without life-size copies, we are the blind leading the blind. The situation reminds me of the deadlock that held scholarship back on the Dead Sea Scrolls decades ago. When manuscripts are hoarded by a few, it results in errors and monopoly interpretations that are very hard to overturn even after they are proved wrong.

To avoid this, the Society of Biblical Literature passed a resolution in 1991 holding that, if the condition of the written manuscript requires that access be restricted, a facsimile reproduction should be the first order of business. It’s a shame that National Geographic, and its group of scholars, did not follow this sensible injunction.

I have wondered why so many scholars and writers have been inspired by the National Geographic version of the Gospel of Judas. I think it may stem from an understandable desire to reform the relationship between Jews and Christians. Judas is a frightening character. For Christians, he is the one who had it all and yet betrayed God to his death for a few coins. For Jews, he is the man whose story was used by Christians to persecute them for centuries. Although we should continue to work toward a reconciliation of this ancient schism, manufacturing a hero Judas is not the answer.

April D. DeConick, a professor of Biblical studies at Rice University, is the author of “The Thirteenth Apostle: What the Gospel of Judas Really Says



Averick
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01 Dec 2007, 2:36 pm

I believe Judas was said to be a 'demon' because his intervention was caustic to all of faith. He actually was no demon as one would think a demon to be. It was said that Jesus had a son and named him Judas after one of his best friends.



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01 Dec 2007, 2:53 pm

I only know the 'and a demon entered into Judas' story from the bible, so I always assumed he was an empty shell who was possessed at the time.

Interesting article.



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01 Dec 2007, 3:36 pm

erm he was a heel, but if you consider a hero being a part of God's plan then yes he was a hero. I'm not so sure about the demon thing. Which book of the bible is this in and what chapter and verse. lol i have never heard he was demon possesed. I doubt that a demon would help God in or Jesus descend to heaven. And remember if you believe in demons which are evil you have to know that evil is departed from good, which means there has to be good, meaning there is a God.



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01 Dec 2007, 3:45 pm

Luke 22:3 "Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve."

John 13:27 "As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him."



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01 Dec 2007, 3:51 pm

its not to be taken literally. the bible has things that are to be taken literally and metaphorically. Satan did not enter Judas. If satan was in him when did he leave? and if he never left why did Judas feel guilty for betraying Christ. Satan would absolutely not feel guilty for this. And wasnt Judas a believer, once your a believer you cannot be demon possesed.



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01 Dec 2007, 3:56 pm

Don't tell me how to interpret the bible or what to think about it.



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01 Dec 2007, 3:59 pm

sorry im not trying to control you. dont you think the bible should have only one interpretation? otherwise it means nothing but what i want it to mean



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01 Dec 2007, 5:16 pm

You forgot the option "Who gives a flying f**k, it's all a work of fiction anyways"


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01 Dec 2007, 8:32 pm

Quite interesting.


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01 Dec 2007, 8:51 pm

jfrmeister wrote:
You forgot the option "Who gives a flying f**k, it's all a work of fiction anyways"


Even if you regard the story as a work of pure fiction, you still have the opportunity to evaluate the character of Judas Iscariot.

Jesus had a very important mission to accomplish, which was to die on the cross, arise from the dead, and ascend into Heaven.

Jesus' friend Judas had a crucial role to play in the drama -- which was to lead Caiaphas' soldiers to Jesus to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. At the Last Supper, Jesus knew that Judas had to leave in order to bring the soldiers. And, it was with a tender kiss that Judas met Jesus in the garden, just before Jesus was arrested.

If Judas had not fulfilled his role, then Jesus might not have been arrested, would not have been crucified, and the world would never have found salvation.

The whole of human salvation hinged upon Judas Iscariot, fulfilling his role as the apparent heel, and enduring the reproach of humanity through the centuries.



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01 Dec 2007, 8:55 pm

pandabear wrote:
jfrmeister wrote:
You forgot the option "Who gives a flying f**k, it's all a work of fiction anyways"


Even if you regard the story as a work of pure fiction, you still have the opportunity to evaluate the character of Judas Iscariot.

Jesus had a very important mission to accomplish, which was to die on the cross, arise from the dead, and ascend into Heaven.

Jesus' friend Judas had a crucial role to play in the drama -- which was to lead Caiaphas' soldiers to Jesus to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. At the Last Supper, Jesus knew that Judas had to leave in order to bring the soldiers. And, it was with a tender kiss that Judas met Jesus in the garden, just before Jesus was arrested.

If Judas had not fulfilled his role, then Jesus might not have been arrested, would not have been crucified, and the world would never have found salvation.

The whole of human salvation hinged upon Judas Iscariot, fulfilling his role as the apparent heel, and enduring the reproach of humanity through the centuries.


This is like arguing over Star Trek episodes or Pokemon cards.... it's a waste of time. I have more important things to do....... like go watch some paint dry.


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01 Dec 2007, 9:02 pm

I find stuff like this very interesting, things related to apochrypha, no matter how things were, which we can't really know for certain.

About Judas, well, it is interesting to see this other side that he was a demon, but that would have some meaning or intention to protrait him worse than the cannon gospels do. I remember the national geographic documentary saying that christians wanted to distance themselves from the jews, in which that would be why Judas is portrayed as an evil traitor in the cannon gospels.


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pandabear
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01 Dec 2007, 10:13 pm

jfrmeister wrote:

This is like arguing over Star Trek episodes or Pokemon cards.... it's a waste of time. I have more important things to do....... like go watch some paint dry.


Well, I don't really like watching paint dry. I don't like the smell. I'd rather argue about this. So there, smarty pants :cyclopsani:



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01 Dec 2007, 10:18 pm

only one Judas in my book
and that's JUDAS PRIEST 8)