The Existance Of God(Christianity)

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Who made God? misses the point. The God of Christianity is the Creator and sustainer of all ELSE that exists. No one created Him, which is probably why people say its beyond human comprehension, which frankly it is.

Attributes of The God of The Bible (Christianity) ( i dont know what else has a book called The Bible, but who knows now days lol)

God is Omnipotent meaning all powerful. which means what it says (all powerful)
He cannot do nonsensical things like make square circles or married bachelors.
He can't sin, lie, cease to exist because it goes against his perfection. God is PERFECT, he never fails.

God is Omniscent meaning he knows everything.
He knows the past, present, and the future.

God is Disembodied meaning Spirit. He is aware of everything and sustains everything, and he is Nowhere meaning he Transcends time and space.

God cannot not exist

The Existence of God

Some argue that Christians make up God, and that we have invented him in our minds.

The God of the Bible's existence is not dependent upon Christians because our belief in him does not make him real, he exists independently of our minds. and here's why:

As Christians we believe its true that we can't observe God in his fullness or fully understand him, just partially which is why we could not have possibly invented Him, because anything a person invents they understand because they have invented it. (unless they get eilzheimers or however you spell it...har har har) .. ok back to what i was saying...

Here are some arguments for God's existence which is what you want so listen up:

Transcendental Argument: Here are arguments from the atheistic/naturalsitc worldview vs. Theistic Chriastin worldview

Athiestic/naturalistic:
- Only physical things exist - no soul, mind, or morality
- Human beings are the result of blind chance( no creator) and evolution

Theistic Christian Worldview:- Phsical and non-physical things exist - morality, minds, souls, and numbers 1, 2 ,3 ,4( you may say but thats a number you just typed, no thats not a physical number, its the result of the computer making a shape( i dont know the technicality of it), just like writing , its lead or ink not a physical number)
- While physical things change, non-physical things do not- like logic and morals, etc

Heres a question for Athiests/Naturalists

If your mind is a result of blind chance(no creator), how can you trust your own mind for the truth?

If you were going to buy a computer and you knew it had software downloaded at random, would you buy that computer? No.. because it wouldnt give you true information.(the info could be made by a liar or i dont know it could have norton antivius on there or some cheap program that doesnt do its job) no offense to norton heh..heh...Your mind according to the naturalistic worldview is not only physical, but the result of chance and survival of the fittest...it may be that we've survived as the result of us not knoing about the world. Maybe our minds lie to us and help us survive. How do you know that you know anything? In this worldview, you have no assurance of even knowlege itself.(knowlege requires a non-physical mind, because..well you know knowlege is not physical).

The last argument under the Transcendental category is: Evil only makes sense if there is an objective good. Evil is something thats set apart from good. The God of The bible or Christianity is good.

2nd Argument Kalam Cosmological Argument:
No begining vs. beginning-Big Bang Theory: something came from nothing (erm come again)
-Second Law of Thermodynamics: Universe is moving toward heat death
-Actual Infinite: unlimited set(the past is infinite because the beginning is undefined and not known)
its logically impossible, because if the past were infinite, i could not be here today typing on this computer, because my mother wouldnt have been here and etc.

Uncause vs. cause -if the universe were uncaused, then it would have always existed, because only caused things have beginnings. Like the beginning of SuperBowl it is caused and starts on a specific date.

Conceptually Possilbe vs. Logically Impossible
Miracles are both conceptually and logically possible. ex:
1. Virgin Birth
2. Prior to the 1900s flying in an airplane

Nonsense is neither conceptually nor logically possible like an impersonal uncaused earth with no beginning.

Theres proof for ya. I'd like to say to any athiest or naturalist who reads this, I have tried to accurately describe every one of the viewpoints of your worldviews in my comparisons. If you feel like i have got a certain one wrong please tell me so I can change my arguement to be fair.

You may ask the question (how do you know these things ?) Its in the Bible, which was written through people used by God to write it. Then you may say well if humans are sinful and imperfect how can we trust the validity of the Bible if its written by God through man. You're forgetting that the God of Christianity is perfect and sustains what He has created, and will not fail in anything He does. To let God Fail would limit His omnipotence and perfection. You may ask well how do you know that the Bible didnt get goofed over throughout history? same answer God is IN CONTROL.

Last edited by Myles17 on 01 Dec 2007, 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And, then again, perhaps God is not in control. If He is, he must be held responsible for this huge mess which is, as far as I can see, not what I would prefer as perfection. Of course, my taste may not coincide with God's.

God didn't tell me to write this. sorry

Your options suck.

I'm an atheist and I believe that morals are a result of evolutionary psychology. They can be measured by EKG maping of the brain. When someone does a "moral" act, the same part of the brain lights up as durring sex or durring eating, that its, the pleasure center. What other force could've caused this reaction in humans other than the evolutionary need for cooperative behavior?

oh ok so when they do something good it lights up and when they do something bad it lights up? And why would evolution need cooperative behavior. Evolution is not an invdividual it is uncaused and impersonal

If God is all powerful how can you tell whether or not He made you do anything?

Evolution DOES have causes. you don't understand to much of it do you?

oh really who or what thing caused it?

the laws of physics

okay how did they cause it give me some information or a link please.

because God gave man a free will and a mind of his own and to control me would be to lie and go against his perfection

Do you have the free will to NOT be Autistic?

no. free will means the ability to make choices that come up. like i can choose not to respond to you or i can choose to leave and go get something to eat. I cannot choose to have different syndromes or not have them.

please tell me about how the laws of physic created earth i want to know your viewpoint to see if makes more sense

You don't seem to understand that the very fact that you associate "cannot" with something that can be done contradicts the definition of "omnipotent". Just admit that your God can't do everything and we won't think less of you for that. I know that square circles do seem impossible, but here's a better example of something that can be done that God can't do. Humans create buildings they can't lift (at least not without taking them apart). But God should be able to lift buildings he might make because he's omnipotent, right? But if he can, then he can't make buildings that couldn't be lifted. And that contradicts omnipotence because there is something he can't do (and we can do it), ergo it must be concluded that he is not omnipotent.

If God is so perfect, why does he make imperfect beings?



This also begs the question of whether or not destiny exists. In which case if it does, then it contradicts free will. The other plausible option would be if he weren't omniscient or free will didn't exist. But since it is evident that I have the free will to choose atheism, that makes omniscience even less plausible.



Or you know, this definition completely contradicts itself and he doesn't exist. Or if he did exist, his existence would be a redundant one.



That's not true at all. You can invent anything within your mind that you want to. In fact, you could even invent something that makes sense to you, but don't realize that it won't work in reality. The power of the mind is not limited to "perfection", and I might add that that's one thing God doesn't have.



For a simple answer, that could easily be done with "Cogito ergo sum"--I think, therefore I am. But how my mind came to exist and how it functions are not necessarily relevant. Furthermore, as the Latin phrase goes, there is nothing else that I know of that I can trust. I can only rely on my mind because it is all I have, and if God existed, I could only perceive him by using my mind. Without it, I can neither find truth nor believe in God.



Which is why I prefer macs over windows.

You may believe the mind to be capable of "lying" in order to survive, but as stated above, it is all you have to rely on. It's still better than relying on something else, which you have even less validity of.



What's that supposed to mean?



You may as well not trust the bible anyways because I'm not making much sense out of it. If there was a God and he had a perfect message, I don't see why he would be dumb enough to have imperfect humans write the bible for him anyways. Maybe you should just concede that he did fail and isn't omnipotent. Besides, you have no reason to assume that he is omnipotent and that there's something wrong with the logical contradictions that have been presented unless...omnipotence is a conclusion, but that can only be the result of evidence or proving, of which we have shown otherwise to be the case.