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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 2:20 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I do not consider it to be nonsense because I am a Christian. I do not consider it to be silly.

Why is it so hard for you to show respect to others?


To perceive something as silly is not done lightly or without comparison to the standards I have respected for my whole life. It is highly offensive to me that you should shove your childish nonsense in front of me and declare I should have any respect for it. It does not stand up to any sensible perception of the universe in my paradigm. The human race has to grow up very quickly or destroy itself and all life on this planet and I highly respect the wonders of life on this planet. Religion insofar as I can see it is focused on death and the unsubstantiated daydreams of people I don't respect as to what happens after death. My business concerns life and every minute of it is precious to me. That's where my values lie.



Haliphron
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09 Feb 2009, 3:03 pm

slowmutant wrote:
By your logic, I could create a thread of my own and rail on and about how homosexuality is illogical/unnatural/sinful, but I won't. It's rude and it's counterproductive and it serves only to alienate people.

Complete the sentence:

_TRUTH_ is the better of valour.

Give up? It's discretion.


Well, I should like to point out that the claim that Homosexuality is unnatural has been demostrated to be factually False. I have a feeling the the smarter christians KNOW this but they will do EVERYTHING they possibly can to suppress this token of truth because they perceive it as a threat to their way of life. Christians want people to believe that homosexuality is unnatural so they'll think of it as "bad" and create social incentives to discourage it from being practiced. When christians condemn masturbation as being sinful, the idea behind it is that people are supposed to obtain sexual gratification only within marriage. Christian fundamentalists are very intolerant, combine that with the fact that they are ACTIVELY anti-rational, the more tolerance we allow for their garbage the more they'll use that as an oppertunity to PUSH their ideas onto us!



history_of_psychiatry
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09 Feb 2009, 3:08 pm

Christians are constantly badmouthing pagans and wiccans the same way they've badmouthed jews and muslims for hundreds of years. Yet the christians are the first to cry and whine when someone does something to them.


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audiobyrne
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09 Feb 2009, 3:09 pm

Back to this "Jesus is Savior" website...

They actually claimed that George Harrison was burning in hell. If that isn't evidence of the ridiculousness of the site, I don't know what is. Say what you want about Marilyn Manson, Ozzy, and Jimmy Page, but stay away from the amazing person that was George Harrison.


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audiobyrne
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09 Feb 2009, 3:16 pm

Additionally, note that only about 33% of people living in the world today are Christians. This website and hundreds if not thousands of fundamentalist groups would actually believe and teach that two thirds of all people in their world have no hope unless they convert. This number would become even larger when one considers the number of Christians who understand how to live a truly Christian life.


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audiobyrne
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09 Feb 2009, 3:38 pm

slowmutant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jesus is not a savior. If it were not for the sinister Paul, Jesus would be no more than a footnote in history. Christianity is Paulianity.

ruveyn


You're so wrong. It wasn't Paul whom they put up on that cross. Paul didn't offer himself as a supreme sacrifice.


I don't know that Ruveyn intended to diminish the life or existence of Christ so much as to point out that much of what we know and much of what Christianity is based on is due to the writings of Paul. His epistles likely pre-date the Gospels themselves.

St. Paul at Wikipedia


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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 4:29 pm

slowmutant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jesus is not a savior. If it were not for the sinister Paul, Jesus would be no more than a footnote in history. Christianity is Paulianity.

ruveyn


You're so wrong. It wasn't Paul whom they put up on that cross. Paul didn't offer himself as a supreme sacrifice.


There are many Christian beliefs that puzzle me but the concept that Jesus made a supreme sacrifice at the same time that Christians believe that Jesus merely returned to Heaven is very strange to my understanding. What sacrifice? Heaven is certainly pleasanter than Earth in Christian concept.



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09 Feb 2009, 5:07 pm

It's the whole death cult thing. It's circular reasoning. The have a sense of self-preservation like anyone else, so they don't want to die; because they don't want to die, they make up a story about how they won't actually die, but go to heaven instead. Logically, since heaven is better, they should all just kill themselves - but, because of their own sense of self preservation, they still don't want to die. An inherent weakness in the world view - maybe this is part of why xians always feel that their faith is under attack?

If anything, the suicide bomber is one of the more logical types of true believer out there.



audiobyrne
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09 Feb 2009, 5:21 pm

I personally never put much weight upon the crucifixion. I see more importance in celebrating his life and acknowledging that he LIVED, not that he died or "sacrificed" Himself. Death is inevitable and martyrdom is incredibly common. Such a life and resurrection are almost inconceivably uncommon.

I don't believe that God actually directly interferes with human existence, "He" merely opens doors. As such, I believe that Jesus could have saved Himself from such a death, but to do so would be against the way God works. Not only that, but it would be selfish of Him, and it would have been selfish of his followers to expect anything but His acceptance of His sentence.

Whenever I hear Christians say "Jesus died for your sins" I want to point out that he really just lived to show us what a life free from sin meant. Would anything but a spectacular death befit such a spectacular life?

Sure, He died. He was executed and endured incredible amounts of physical torment. But He also Lived(with a capital "L"). That to me is the most important part.


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Sand
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09 Feb 2009, 11:33 pm

There are lots of things that Jesus is quoted as saying that is quite commendable. But he was just another Jewish rabbi and lots of people have said the same things many times before and after. Without his death at the hands of a Roman sadist there probably never would have been Christianity. So his death was a necessary part of the legend of Christianity. Without it the cross would never have become a symbol. So, far from being a sacrifice, his death was a necessary part of establishing the religion and to convert it into the legend of a man killing a god made it something rather unusual. And to make it into a god dying and yet eternal added to the entangled paradoxes that flourish in theistic philosophy and make it so impenetrable. Christianity seized this event because it was not a failure but a predestined success to prove the guilt of mankind that could only be expiated by subjugation to the authorities in charge of the church. Guilt is the gold of Christianity that only the church can relieve. Just in the last few days the church re-established the process that adherents can rid themselves of guilt through approved church indulgences re-enforcing the church's power over groveling believers. Its a scam.



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10 Feb 2009, 12:43 am

Who started this thread, anyway?



Haliphron
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10 Feb 2009, 4:20 am

BellaDonna wrote:
Some people see aspies as the same. Doesn't mean you have to sh** on them because theyre different.


Waaaaaaaaaah, We're being persecuted! WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!! :lol:



slowmutant
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10 Feb 2009, 4:33 am

Haliphron wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
Some people see aspies as the same. Doesn't mean you have to sh** on them because theyre different.


Waaaaaaaaaah, We're being persecuted! WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!! :lol:


Haliphron, don't be an idiot.



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10 Feb 2009, 8:04 am

Sand wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
Sand wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
Every one hates Christians but what about cults and people that still practice satanism and child abuse - alot of them are paedophiles. There is so much more in the world to hate or make fun of than christians.


Of course there are many silly things that people believe that could be worthwhile having fun with but why should Christianity be left out when they are such easy targets?


Exactly easy targets = Bullies/Cowards. It is like people with AS being targeted, pathetic.


I tend to agree with you that Christianity is an illness that needs treatment and pointing out its inconsistencies and unwarranted assumptions and just plain cloud cuckoo land silliness is precisely the medicine it needs to shake its adherents into facing reality.

Am I missing something here Sand, or are you implying that Alex is just plain cuckoo land silly in thinking that Asperger's is not a disease


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ruveyn
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10 Feb 2009, 8:33 am

Sand wrote:
There are lots of things that Jesus is quoted as saying that is quite commendable. But he was just another Jewish rabbi and lots of people have said the same things many times before and after. Without his death at the hands of a Roman sadist there probably never would have been Christianity. So his death was a necessary part of the legend of Christianity. Without it the cross would never have become a symbol. So, far from being a sacrifice, his death was a necessary part of establishing the religion and to convert it into the legend of a man killing a god made it something rather unusual. And to make it into a god dying and yet eternal added to the entangled paradoxes that flourish in theistic philosophy and make it so impenetrable. Christianity seized this event because it was not a failure but a predestined success to prove the guilt of mankind that could only be expiated by subjugation to the authorities in charge of the church. Guilt is the gold of Christianity that only the church can relieve. Just in the last few days the church re-established the process that adherents can rid themselves of guilt through approved church indulgences re-enforcing the church's power over groveling believers. Its a scam.


If the Romans had decapitated Jesus, Christians would wear little axes or swords around their necks. The way to the Father is the Chopping Block.

ruveyn



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10 Feb 2009, 8:40 am

Yeah, and Jesus had been been executed by way of the electric chair, we might be wearing little tiny electric chairs around our necks today.

But I doubt it, 'cause that technology didn't exist in the 1st century.



Your hatred is growing, strengthening. I can feel it. Pretty soon you'll be expressing your hate beyond the bounds of cyberspace, IRL.