Charleston Shooter: Racist or Mentally Ill?

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The question is - is someone like OliveOilMom a racist just for her opinions on the Confederate flag? I say definitely not. What might be offensive to you and I isn't seen as offensive by others. But neither should we deny the abhorrent way that flag had been used throughout history.

Mentally ill means you are diagnosed with a mental illness that we know about and have a name for. Some people aren't able to be diagnosed because they either don't cooperate or hide their symptoms or they have something we haven't discovered yet. Not all mentally ill people are crazy and not all crazy people are mentally ill, but some are both and if you go shoot a bunch of strangers and you aren't defending yourself or at war then you are sure as s**t crazier than a shithouse rat drinking hairspray and more than likely mentally ill on top of it and either way you need to be put away somewhere and probably should have been long before this.

Saying that guy was mentally ill isn't going to lead to locking up all mentally ill people. They already know that almost everybody in prison has a psych dx of some kind. If they wanted to do that they already have the info and ammo they need to make it happen, a high profile case would just be the impetus to bring it up as a possibility, which won't happen because most of the country could be dx'd with something whether it's depression or anxiety or a phobia etc, so if you locked up everybody with something, there would be nobody to guard the doors.

However, there is a line where enough is enough. When somebody is a danger to themselves or others, especially others, they need to be put somewhere and treated whether they have committed a crime or not. That isn't like putting them in jail because they might commit a crime, that is like putting them in the hospital because their blood pressure is through the roof and they are having chest pains and it looks like they are going to have a heart attack or stroke and you want to prevent it. Locking up the true crazies is to prevent this kind of thing. They won't do it to all of us, just the ones who are dangerous. It won't be done for convenience either because it will cost money and there will be so much proof you need to put them in. Plus the goal will be treatment and then get them back out to a halfway house and teach them how to function and get a job and do all that. It wouldn't be locking somebody up because they are too much trouble. You can easily take a crazy person, dress him in all red of blue and talk to him about using certain phrases over and over, which are meant to offend and incite violence, but using them over and over in a sentence will cement them in his brain and then just drop him off in gang central town and he will get himself taken out. That wouldn't work with all, just the ones that are a lot of trouble cause they wander the streets and are delusional and bother people, but you shouldn't do that, or lock them up if they aren't dangerous. But you should evaluate them to see.

The really crazy people don't live in a void. They interact with others and even if they seem ok on the surface, there are people who know there is something seriously wrong. Those people just didn't get them help because they couldn't or there was no way to force it. Then when they snap and do this kind of s**t, all kinds of stuff comes out about their past and lost chances to get them help. Those are the ones who need to be locked up. Will they all do something like this? No. Is it unfair to do that to them then? Sort of, if you think forcing medical treatment on someone who needs it so they can have a better quality of life is unfair. Sometimes we have to do things which may seem unfair or just not right in some way to not only protect everyone else, but also to help someone else who cannot see that they need help. I'm not saying lock them up and throw away the key when they cross the nutjob line in the sand, I'm saying when you see something extremely concerning, then force treatment and fix it. A professional that is, not just anybody. There is a huge difference in that kind of illness and the kind most people with anxiety disorders, personality disorders, depression, some types of schizophrenia, and other have. We can't really tell the difference, but the people who spent years in medical school, internship, residency, and fellowships can. I'm not willing to sacrifice innocent lives or risk them just to seem to be unfair when this would do two good things at once. Help the person have a better life and keep people safe.

Then again, it won't protect against regular people who just snap. But you can't protect against everything.

I seem way off when I talk to people and "take off the mask". If anybody was afraid they would be accidentally locked up in the insane asylum it should be me, because people tend to think I might do something over the top and out of control, fairly often. However I'm not worried. A psychiatrist, not psychologist, not therapist, not social worker with a counseling degree, not a minister with a few more classes, not somebody who is very empathetic and caring by nature and just wants to listen and help, not the folks at the crisis line, and not a school counselor, but a real honest to God board certified psychiatrist with a specialization in those types of mental disorders, could tell in a heartbeat that I'm not dangerous. Just like they would you Sweetleaf or anybody else who has a dx or a suspected dx.

There is a time to say enough is enough and do something before the bomb you see counting down explodes. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

All 6 network stations here in South Central PA (NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, the CW and PBS/NPR) have been harping on the Gettysburg battlefield gift shop (which is run by the Friends of the Battlefield) all week, as well as the local newspapers in Chambersburg (the next big town west of Gettysburg), Hanover, York, Harrisburg (which has a large Civil War museum) and Lancaster. And they call me a concrete thinker? Just like anything else Uncle Sugar comes in contact with (and I worked for government contractors during my employment within DoD), it's all or nothing!

I just sent it. Thanks in advance for reading it.

As for out West, I've always assumed that out West has less discrimination than any other place. Not Texas and Arkansas West, but California/Oregon/Washington/Nevada West. There is probably a lot in Texas, I went there once for a weekend. Long story. They out-redneck the for real rednecks down here. I did learn to two step and drank beer with a very cute and gentlemanly Texan, but I had a bf back home and was there to meet my dad and we had gone to a bar for dinner. My dad was a dud. Everything we did involved a bar. That was sort of ok because I was 21 and into drinking all the time, but not ok because I wanted my dad to be like my friend Ken's dad and the only things they had in common was being in Who's Who and playing golf. At least now I know where I got my ability to hold my liquor. And a for real Stetson and some fabulous cowgirl boots. Plus an understanding of why my mother left him.

I'd like to visit California one day, but I'm afraid of earthquakes. Ironic since we have frequent and killer tornadoes and when they are in sight I'll go outside to get a better look because it's miles away and will probably turn (always has so far, knock wood). I'd really like to go to Washington State and Vancouver Canada and see all the places where they filmed Highlander. There used to be tours for those sites but it's been off the air for a long time and I haven't been in touch with anyone in the fandom in 20 years so I doubt they are still around with tours.

I don't know a ton about Lincoln other than how he relates to the war and he grew up in a log cabin. He was shot at the movies. Also that secretary thing about Kennedy. That's all I remember, I'm sure I learned more. We didn't get as much about him or the North or anything else as we got about the Civil War. The war and Indians in Alabama were our two major history subjects. I'm not kidding. A small amount of time was devoted to parts of the rest of the book, but we would spend months on those two topics. Also, those subjects are great for lots of crafts and field trips too. For the first five years of school, that was mainly all the history we learned, because not only are we proud of our Southern heritage (but NOT the Klan and slavery) we are also REAL proud of our Indian heritage and because there were so many of them in Alabama when it was settled (stolen) there was a lot of intermarrying and most people whose families were here from the 1800's have Indian blood and everybody claims it and is way too into having way too little blood. We all know our exact percentages. I have 1/8 Cherokee. My mother's fathers father married a full blooded Cherokee lady. It's documented. I'm even a member of a Cherokee tribe as are my kids. We don't do anything, they don't have much I'm interested in or could go to. I'd be interested in learning the arts and crafts and the dances and the history and all but most of the get togethers are just bbq's on tribal land. They bring portable tv's and watch football or NASCAR. I can get that anywhere. That doesn't feel particularly Indian to me. I digressed again. I meant to tell you that Lincoln wasn't that important to our school board so we didn't learn more than we had to. Now you also know what all else we learned. Two things. The war and Indians.

I may see what I can find at the library about Lincoln though. I'd like to read something and work that into what I already know. It may fill in things. Well, it has to, all the Lincoln stuff is blank. Do you know of any good non-biased books on the subject? I want something that is neither pro-South or pro-North. I don't want the writer to be putting forward any slant on him. I just want plain facts and to draw my own conclusions. I do not want the words "Lincoln felt " or "Lincoln thought" to be in there. I want it to say instead "According to <Source> Lincoln said that he felt" or "<Name>, Lincolns friend and advisor wrote that Lincoln told him he felt..." I would like just facts and not for the author to draw any conclusions at all. It's a topic that is easily slanted one way or the other and in my experience the rest of the country slants anything relating to the South one particular way and if you don't go with that you are a POS Klansman or something similar. It would be very easy to write a book that would draw the conclusions that most of the country wants, and I'm not saying those aren't the true ones. I don't know. I'm sure there are tons of contradictory books and since everybody is now dead, there is no way to know.

This just dawned on me, our library and our basement at the courthouse has tons of Civil War documents and the back room of the library has hundreds of reproductions of other originals in other cities and states so I'm sure I could find original things or copies of them related to him. I'm going to do that this coming week and see what I find, before I read any book at all. Of course I may only find somebody's opinion or I might find copies of documents or letters from people with first hand knowledge, I have no clue. If you are interested in this I'd be happy to take pics of some of them and even get photocopies if you want to see them. I can't promise anything relevant but I can try. The South has tons and tons of Civil War documents and Civil War era documents unrelated to the war. They are kept separate for research ease, and the library has a lady there devoted just to that stuff and to geneology. I really hope you are interested because I'd like to share what I find with you. Maybe you could help me decide what is relevant and what isn't. I'm excited, I actually have a project to do this coming week that doesn't involve cooking, organizing or sewing something! Yay Kraichgauer, Yay Lincoln, Yay espresso machine!

My point is not everyone who becomes a danger to themselves or others does so due to mental illness. I have been hospitalized for suicidal thoughts and well apparently I was deemed ok to be unhospitalized after a time. I am not opposed to hospitalization where necessary to prevent mentally ill from harming themselves or others if they get into a state there is a good chance they could be.

That doesn't however mean anytime someone is a danger its due to mental illness, hate for instance can certainly breed violence even for non-mentally ill people. There was a study done where they took mentally healthy individuals to find if under pressure they might be more willing to do cruel things, well the study found more often than not they where....Also take Nazi Germany for example, it wasn't a case of mass mental illness spreading plenty who took part or at least passively looked on at the killing of jews, disabled and other groups they targeted where not mentally ill it was a case of propaganda, keeping the concentration camps out of the major cities and such so the general population was not as visually aware of what was going on, fear mongering like claiming the victims of said death camps where the 'enemy', fear of what might happen should you speak out.


I mean if someone wants to go out and shoot a bunch of people in a racial minority out of hate...I am sorry but I don't think that is a case of 'oh this person needs medical treatment' I think that is a case of violent potential murderer needing hefty consequences. And from what I have heard of this incident...it sounds more likely this person knew exactly what they where doing, and where willing to do it to 'further' their cause that sounds more like a sort of political extremist than a mentally ill person snapping and going on a rampage. Also sure generally speaking I am not dangerous...I've been suicidal and in that point I am a danger at least to me, but that is what the hospitals for. I would like to think though that in a crisis or something where I needed to be 'dangerous' to defend myself if need be I could be but obviously that is different than thoughts of harming self or others you would want to go to the ER for.

Well, if you're ever in Washington state, feel free to cross the Cascade mountain range into the more arid eastern side of the state, where my wife and I would be more than happy to welcome you to the Spokane area.
As for any books on Lincoln - back in my college days, I had done a paper on a book for a Civil War And Reconstruction class I had taken, called Abraham Lincoln: The Man Behind The Myth, by an author named Stephen Oates. Basically, Oates digs away the myths around Lincoln perpetrated by both his fans and enemies. It's a comparatively short book, but very informative. If the name Stephen Oates at all sounds familiar, he had been featured on Ken Burns' Civil War series.
In regard to Native Americans - my part of the country hardly has a sterling legacy in that department. Though today, Chief Joseph of the Nez Perz is considered a regional hero, and author and poet Sherman Alexi, who is of the Spokane tribe, is a local celebrity. Today, it's common for people to speak of their Native blood, though at one time, they would have been disparaged as "half breeds."

I doubt I'll ever get out there but thank you so much for the invitation. And right back at ya, if you are ever down south, please come visit. I'll show ya'll around and take you to some great places in the city and out in the country. We have plenty of room! I also promise to take you to see the Civil War documents if you want. You seem to like that the same way my husband does WWII. My niece and her husband recently moved to right outside Seattle. He's in the army and she is there with her 2 year old. She doesn't know many people, maybe you would know of some ideas for her? She's almost 30, and when I counted to type that it about blew my mind! She was in diapers when I got married and was a co-flower girl with her older sister. Cute as could be but didn't have a hair on her head yet!

I've seen Ken Burns documentaries listed either on Netflix or Amazon and I'm pretty sure I could find that Civil War one. I've watched the one on the Dust Bowl and Prohibition and a couple more that weren't interesting enough to stick in my mind. I'm always on the lookout for historical documentaries on the 1100s to 1915 or so. It's hard to find one about every day life, culture, society, traditions and practices and habits, etc. Everything is always about this historical person or that historical person. I'm interested in the "nobodies" and how they lived. My dream is to one day join the SCA. However, I can't even get to Tuscaloosa at the moment without it being a major production, so going out of town plus back in time will have to wait.

Strangely enough, even though I was born and raised here the Civil War has never been one of my interests. Plantation life was after seeing GWTW and going on multiple school trips to the old restored and tourist attraction plantation house "Arlington" which was about two miles from my school and three from my house. I was interested in what life was like for the planters and family and for the slaves. I was actually more interested in the slaves lives. Hardship has always been a magnet to me. I don't like that people have had to go through it, but it's interesting and I always wonder if I could survive something like whatever it is I was reading about. I always sort of wanted to be and also dreaded, being tested that way. So far I haven't, not like that, knock on wood. My favorite hardship story was Corrie Ten Boom the hiding place. I enjoyed the book and they did a wonderful thing, but I'd read the parts where they were in the camps over and over. I read quickly over the violence because I didn't like that but I'd try and imagine what it was like for the prisoners. This sounds TERRIBLE, but I don't mean it that way. I don't have a fascination with people being harmed or anything. I'm fascinated with how strong people turn out to be, and how they come up with all kinds of ways to make something halfway bearable and survivable. Things I'd never think of. I guess I was sort of reading all those hardship things to get ideas and encouragement for when I didn't think I could deal with things anymore because my life was no bed of roses. But in the 6th grade every kid in class was reading "The Hiding Place" to learn how to be a better Christian and be willing to sacrifice everything for others because Jesus wanted it, and I was reading it to see how to survive the unthinkable. Weird huh? To this day I love reading and watching those kind of stories. That may be why I was so looking forward to Y2K and so prepared. I still haven't gotten over that disappointment lol.

The only Indians I know about in Washington state are the ones in the Twilight books, and I looked that up and they are a real tribe. There are so many more tribes in the US than I've ever heard of. I'd like to get interested in that one day and research it. I only know of our Alabama ones, and I only remember the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, Chickasaw, and Tallapoosa. I'm sure there are more. I've also heard of the Navajo and Apache but they are plains Indians. Interesting tidbit, when you see an Indian in a movie or on TV, no matter where it's supposed to be set you will probably see a man on a horse wearing the big feather headdress. From what I understand that is only worn by the plains Indians and not the others. I heard that in a documentary about American Indians in film. That one really cute actor who plays the Indian in a lot of tv shows was in it and he talked about that. Reel Injun, that was the name of the documentary. It's very interesting and if you are interested in the topic, please watch it. I think it was on Netflix, but it might have been Amazon. I only watch Amazon Prime so anything I suggest will be free.

I just found out another view on the flag that I have never heard from a Southerner. I was discussing all this flag stuff with my oldest daughter's fiance and he's very liberal, much more so than me and says that while he has no problem with the flag being all over everything else on peoples private property that it should not be flown at state buildings. I asked if it was because people were offended and he said no, because it's a symbol of treason. He said the South committed treason when it secceded and we are lucky that we didn't have more happen to us than just losing the war. He's as Southern as they come but he's very serious about this. I asked why he never mentioned that before, it's an interesting view and he said it's probably not very popular and he doesn't want to argue with people about it. He also said that while the flag wasn't the symbol of slavery it's seen my many as that and because the hate groups used it for so long that it's been so covered with blood and hate that there is no way to really get anyone outside of the Deep South to understand what it means to most Southerners and there is no use trying so we should just retire it and put it in a museum and try to find something else to symbolize the South to us. I understand what he's saying, and I had never, ever thought about treason. I don't know how I feel about that. I really don't.

I've chewed your ear enough here, but also if you ever do come down here I'd really love to cook all ya'll some wonderful Southern food. If you are interested in trying it and are never coming down this way, let me know and I'll type up some recipes for your wife, unless you are like my husband and enjoy cooking for relaxation.

I'm afraid Seattle is on the other side of the "Cascade curtain," so I'm hardly close enough to be of much help in that department. Regardless, how does she like Washington state, otherwise?

She loves it! She was born and raised in a small town in rural Virginia, so this is a whole new experience for her. I'd love to visit there except for one problem, the rain. I love rainy days, in fact they are my favorite. My problem arises when I have to go somewhere because I have a huge phobia of riding in a car in the rain. I don't like driving in it, but I like riding in it much less - control issue. I'm the same way about riding in cars in general now. Yes, this is the same girl who was the first girl to win the annual bragging rights race in the quarter mile at this racetrack I used to take my pro-stock Mustang to. The same chick who never let it go under 90 on the freeway and who was absolutely sure she would never be afraid of speed and always crave it even when she got old. Well I was wrong lol. I would be housebound or walking everywhere if I lived there, which wouldn't be bad if it's flat. I don't mind umbrellas.

Back to my niece. When she first got there she went sightseeing every day and was always so excited and amazed at the things she saw. She had been places before, NYC even, and she wasn't one of those hicks that has never left BFE and walk around with their jaw on the ground, but it was actually living there that gave her the thrill. Vacations with family or school trips are very different than moving across the country with a husband and baby, knowing he's going to go back to the sandbox soon and she will be alone with the baby away from all the family. It's got to be a great feeling but also scary. I'm proud of her for finally getting out of that town.

Obligatory On Topic Content: The town she was born and raised in and that her parents still live in was the birthplace of the KKK. Neither she nor her family are racists, but that was a little factoid that I learned when my husband and I went to visit his sister and them when my oldest was a toddler.

My BIL's dad also took us on a short trip across the border to West Virginia to see the hotel that "Dirty Dancing" was filmed at. That was the high point of the visit. It was a smaller town than the one we lived in now, back then. I had rarely been to a small town back then and was in culture shock for me, plus there was about a foot of snow which was another thing I had rarely seen and only once in that amount. If you know of any places she might like that are kid friendly, I'm sure she would love a heads up.

I bet she gets a lot of comments on her accent. When we moved to DC to get married because that's where my husband was from, I couldn't get two words out without somebody commenting. The men thought I was charming but they all had visions of Daisy Duke and Ellie Mae in their minds, and the women talked down to me without exception. I remember going to see about a job at this bar in Georgetown and the guy wanted to hire me but the lady who ran it said no. She was mean as hell. She told him right in front of me that nobody was going to have time to train me to put on shoes before I came to work. Well, you can imagine that I gave her an ear full. I also had problems understanding some of the people there too, so it was a two way street. My husband took me with him to visit the mother of one of his school friends, and she was so nice and I liked her a lot but we were there an hour and a half and I couldn't understand but about three words she said. Not only did she have that accent, but she talked so very, very fast. Well, she didn't have the accent, as soon as we got close to Northern Virginia I became the one with the accent. My husband said it was time for him to not be the one who talked funny. He moved to Alabama right after graduating high school, when his parents retired. They moved to the house on the lake they had bought and had been renting out. They added on and did some stuff and they still live there now, but he couldn't understand a word anybody said when he moved here. On top of that, when he did understand the words there were many times he didn't understand the meanings. The dinner/supper thing always threw him, and he would get offended when older men would call him "son" because he felt it was disrespectful and trying to make him seem like a clueless kid. He was told over and over that it's common here and means nothing. He got used to it though and now he does it all the time himself. He also lost his accent a few years after we moved back down here from DC. You wouldn't know he's a Yankee from talking to him now. Well, he's not a Yankee, he's a Damn Yankee. A Yankee is a Northerner who comes to the South for a visit. A Damn Yankee is one who comes down here and stays. Old joke. I'm glad he's here though. He was enthralled by Southern girls from the moment he got here and he was prime for the snagging by the time I met him. He was all bushy tailed and ready to find himself a woman. I met him at the gas station I worked at and he was working building the Galleria mall across the street. He came in after work for gas, beer and cigarettes and there was just this instant attraction on both sides. After I rang up his stuff and gave him his change I said he was awesome. It was 80's romance from then on lol. I was wearing my work uniform but with a safety pin in my ear with my house key on it and I had a long, blonde braided rat tail coming out from under a dark brunette Dorothy Hamill wedge haircut. I'm not proud ok? We all have our 80's shame. That's nowhere near the worst of mine.

I remember back around 1990 when Seattle blew up with the music scene and so many kids were moving out there. I wanted to go so bad, but we weren't that adventurous. I was glad we didn't after I read a few articles about how the locals didn't care for the influx of grunge kids and how they weren't exactly nice to new residents because of that. I knew quite a few people who went out there for a while and painted the town plaid flannel but they all eventually came back, mainly because they didn't get the record contracts that most of them moved out there convinced they would get. In retrospect it kind of reminds me of a mini version of the teenager and young adult migration to San Francisco in the late 60's.

More on topic stuff here. Yay, OOM is actually getting back around to the topic of the thread. Listen out for the trumpets from the sky! The flag controversy is all over my FB. Everybody is talking and arguing about it. It's almost like when that dick poisoned the tree at Toomers Corner or when Obama got reelected and a lot of the old people were insisting that we were about to be forced to become Communists lol. I've mentioned this friend of mine on another thread, a preacher in his late 60's named Brother Gregg. He's the dad of one of my daughter's friends. He's REAL Christian and REAL Republican and REAL Pro-Life and basically he's on the polar opposite from me about most issues except for dogs and the Tide. However he is a good friend of ours and he comes to visit DH and I a lot and we go over there. DH isn't as liberal as I am and doesn't enjoy debate but I love it and Brother Gregg does too. He's the sweetest most politest man, and we disagree but he's never ugly about it. I've learned things from him during the debates and he's learned things from me. We agree to disagree about world stuff. He agrees with me about he flag though, (no, he's not racist either. he's against racism, very much. we do agree about that. he's preached against it many times because he said that some people need reminding a lot) he's also got ancestors who fought in the war and he's proud of them, like most people are of ancestors in the war down here. Having ancestors in the Civil War in the South is like having them in the Revolutionary War in New England. It's a thing. Anyway, three people on his FB who he is friends with in real life have said the most vile and horrible and ugly things to him for the past two days about his feelings on the flag and his ancestors. He tried to talk to them nicely the entire time and never said an ugly word back but he wasn't a doormat or anything. He was just nice and polite and, I'm going to use it as a nonreligious adjective that way it's used down here sometimes, he was just extremely Christian about the whole thing. These three people though, were not. Not at all. Most of his real friends were shocked at how those people talked to nice, inoffensive, willing to give you the shirt off his back, dog fancier and friend to Pagans, Pro-Choicers, Liberals and Feminists, Brother Gregg. I wanted to say something but he said not to. Anyway, he's taking them off his FB tomorrow, He posted it tonight and apologized in advance and said he hoped they could work it out and remain friends, but it would have to be face to face because their comments hurt him so bad that he dwelled on them all night and couldn't sleep. Being a brittle diabetic and living alone because his wife died of cancer several years back, that isn't good for him. He said "I'm not removing you because you hurt my feelings I'm removing you because I'm physically weak now and I can't let myself be distracted by a friends hurtful words to the point where I'm losing a nights sleep which my health demands. I'm very sorry to do this, please don't take offense." Now, how could anybody be mean to somebody like that? Anyway, the people are local who were saying that. They used to go to his church and he's known then for 10 to 20 years. They were all three from different families and areas, so it's not like just a bunch of people in one family. And, I know you want to ask, they were white. They accused him of all sorts of racism and such over the flag and because he's proud to be descendants of men who fought in the war. Again, he regularly preaches against racism because he knows that some in his church don't feel the way he does about it. Everybody knows that about him, yet they still said that. Accused him of being a hypocrite and a liar in the pulpit and everything else. It was horrible. So, as much as it's the buzz in other parts of the country, down here it's turning FB into a bloodbath.

It's not just him, everybody is fighting over it. I said my peace about it on my page. I'm going to use this to run for Governor. What I plan on doing is getting a two ton block of granite, somebody who can use a chisel, a dolly and a ride. I'm going to have a baby Jesus wrapped in Rebel Flag swaddling clothes and laying in a manger (We also can't have Christmas decorations on government property and it pissed the Baptists off bad). I'm going to pull a Roy Moore. I'll bribe a guard and get my two boys to carry it into the statehouse in the middle of the night. I'm going to glue it to the floor though, and bolt it down just in case. Then I'm going to contact Hank Williams Jr and get him to write a song about it and come sing it on the steps of the building while they make me remove it. That would get me almost elected. If I can find a way to work The Bear into it, it would be a sure thing. Hell, they would give me extra terms or at least let my husband do like Lurlene and run and we would be co-governors when he was elected. My platform will be "I represent your values!" and I'm going to work in a way to get saved while on campaign at a church. That would cinch it. And when I'm elected, my acceptance speech will be one word... "FREEBIRD!" LOLOL. I wonder if anybody has ever been elected for smartassery lol. My comment got likes and laughs, so far nobody has jumped on me and told me to straighten up and fly right and take this seriously, change my mind and think the way I'm told to. And to quit lying about what I believe cause they know I am. It's going to happen though. It will, you can mark my words. It's usually people not from here who do that to me. I dont know why Brother Gregg got all that hate though, I really wonder. My daughter's fiance is against the flag, he's more liberal than me, but he's against it because he says it stands for treason. The South committed treason by secceding. I'm not even getting into that right now. I just don't know what to say to him, I really don't.

So, did you decide anything about the recipes?

My wife is the one who is actually a competent cook, so yeah, I think she'd be interested in any recipe.
And I will say this, regardless of what one thinks of the Civil War, and the Confederate flag, there is absolutely no excuse to be rude to your friends.
And regarding any phobia about driving in the rain - as I had said before, eastern Washington is actually the arid part of the state, so maybe you could convince your niece to get together with you around these parts!

Now I remember who the Charleston shooter reminds me of, that Yankee woman in Alabama who killed a whole University Department, a lot of them were Black. Went to a department meeting, killed her co workers.

She is the only spree killer I recall in the south, until the Charleston shooter.

The last religious shooter was around Chicago, killed a bunch in a Sikh Temple, because he thought they were Muslim. It is the beards.

So one in New England, one in Colorado, one in Arizona. First Grade, Batman, Political Rally.

I am not seeing a pattern here. None of these produced a demand to remove local history, or rewrite National History.

One pattern is they were all media driven events, I recall several others, killed family members at several locations, went to work and killed several more, that did not get more than a small paragraph.

Now we have people standing on the coffins of the dead screaming Racism! I find that disrespectful of the dead, their loved ones and family. Go get your own soap box.

That Amazon, Walmart, and the White House are on an all out effort to erase Southern History, seems a bit much.

OliveOilMom if you run I will come vote for you.

The Shooter, Dylan Roof, was motivated by racism. He was an admitted white supremacist. By his own admission, he had been inspired by the Conservative Citizens Council - formerly called the White Citizens Council - which is a notorious white supremacist group.

I read his manifesto via Sadly No!. I'm thinking more Schizoid/Schizotypical PD than an Aspie-not to offend those here that have those conditions.He seems more lucid than Elliot Roger, the MRA/PUA killer. If you go to Sadly No!,it's clear he was rather cunning by racists' standards.

Know how the Klansmen refer to the Klan down here? The "Legion of White Decency". ROFL! For real. It's funny because they are so serious about it and don't realize that they are simply the last of a bunch of people trying to hold on to 19th century ideas. It's like people insisting that the world is still flat. Everybody knows it's not true except the nutcases who go around screaming about it. The difference is that the Klansmen want to kill the people who disagree with them, and that isn't funny.

About the recipes, what would your wife like to cook and what would you like to eat? Most of the recipes really aren't recipes per se, they are just a way of cooking the particular thing. Green beans for example, wash them, snap them and then put them in a big pot of water with a couple peeled potatoes an onion or two and some white meat. White meat is what we call fatback or salt pork. It's like thick bacon. You can also use bacon if that is all you have. Bring it to a boil, cut the fire down and cook it on low for about 4 or 5 hours for quick beans and all day for regular beans. If they are Kentucky Wonder beans then add a spoon of sugar or brown sugar to them about two hours before they are done. Only do it for that type, not the others. Add water as need be because it cooks out.

You can make fried corn too, which is like cream corn but not. Scrape it all off the cob and put it in a skillet with bacon grease and a little sugar. Cook that on low for about an hour or two until it's tender. You cook okra like you do the beans except with no potatoes and you don't cut the okra at all if you boil it. You can fry okra too and use flour or corn meal or you can bread it. You can also fry squash and tomatoes. Meats are easy because you just dip them in flour and egg and milk and fry it in crisco. Not oil, shortening. Don't let it touch cause it won't brown then. Butterbeans and black eyed peas are easy as well. The same as green beans - a potato, onion, and white meat. Cook all day.

A traditional Southern meal will have a meat sometimes, usually fried, and several vegetables. You can have a vegetable plate as well which is very common during the summer. A traditional meal usually contains 7 or 8 items. I'd probably cook something like pork chops or chicken and green beans, mashed potatoes and gravy, butterbeans or peas, squash, okra, fried and regular tomatoes, biscuits, green onions, and pie or cobbler. Cobbler is very easy. Mix a cup of flour, sugar and milk and a spoon or so of vanilla. Put some fresh or canned fruit in a oven dish and pour the mixture over it. Double the mixture if you have a lot of fruit. Don't stir. Cook on about 350 until it's golden brown. Add baking powder if you use regular flour and want a lighter crust.

Breakfast can be a big meal too. I like scrambled eggs, grits, bacon or fried ham, sweetmilk gravy, biscuits, cooked fruit , and a cantaloupe. Sliced red tomatoes with mayo on top are good with that too. Only put the milk gravy on the biscuits, you put the ham or bacon grease on the grits and the cooked fruit.

Bacon grease is very important to Southern cooking and I always save mine. You'll find a jar of bacon grease in many a Southern fridge because you use it for so many things. It's used as a base for gravy, to fry certain things in, and to go in the water when you cook vegetables if you don't have any fresh pork to go in there. You can also heat it up and pour it on grits or corn. Yes, we eat very unhealthy but you gotta die from something so I'd rather go with a smile on my face from good eating than starving myself with raw veggies and tofu. (I also really like tofu, which makes no sense at all)

Oh, and Kraichgaur, here is one I almost forgot. You HAVE TO try this. It sounds horrible but it's really very good. Irish potato candy. Get a potato about the size of your fist and wash it but don't peel it. Boil it until it's done and soft. Let it cook completely and then peel it. Put it in a plastic or glass bowl (if you use metal your candy will taste metallic) and mash it with a fork. Add a box of confectionary sugar slowly and mix it up into a stiff dough. Sprinkle some more confectionary sugar on the counter and roll the dough out into a rectangle about a quarter inch thick. Spread peanut butter on it. Roll it up like a jelly roll and wrap it in wax paper, (not foil or plastic wrap) and put it in the fridge overnight to get hard. Slice it and eat it. It's very sweet and very good. For holidays you can add red or green food coloring to make it Christmasy.

I once made some using sesame butter instead of peanut butter. It was good but I like the peanut butter better. You might could use sweet potatoes instead but I've never tried it.