after dad publically shames her, girl jumps off overpass

Post Reply New Topic

Suicide isn't a choice. People who commit suicide aren't culpable for the action.

That implies a state of "Non Compos Mentis" - mental incompetence - which is also the legal term for "insane".

If she was insane, then no one is responsible for her death.

No. I have already stated that both of them over-reacted, but what is done is done.

He did not "mutilate" her at all. He just gave her a bad haircut, which would have grown out in a few weeks.

Back in the 1970s, my brothers were proud of their "long" hair (it covered their ears). When both of them flunked 10th grade, my dad got out the clippers and cut their hair down to the nap. Their hair grew back by autumn, and they went on to drop out by the end of the 11th grade. They did not commit suicide, and they still laugh about their "summer of baldness".

Now, I have questions for you. Are you a parent? Do you know how to raise children? Have you earned a degree in child development? Do you have any suggestions as to how a parent should treat his or her children when all of the coddling, permissiveness, and concern for their self-esteem have failed?

Maybe he should have taken her to a psychiatrist, instead. Maybe she should have been legally medicated into a zombie-like stupor, and placed under the supervision of mental-health professionals until her 18th birthday. Maybe a little xshockx behavioral-modification therapy would have been more appropriate.

But if she was truly mentally incompetent (like others have implied), then maybe any interventive treatment she received would have only delayed the inevitable.

This is all speculation, and second-guessing the legal authorities at this point is a waste of effort. She committed suicide because she wanted to, plain and simple, and no amount of blame-and-shame directed at the father will ever change that.

Wow, that's a startling lack of compassion you're displaying for a dead child.

I think you missed my point Fnord which was that parents are permitted to do things to children with the assumption they are acting in the child's best interest. I imagine he thought he was, but so do many parents some of whom are being abusive. And while I disagree with what your father did to your brothers, boys aren't girls and the meaning of cutting hair off like he did is different.

And not that it matters as we should behave well regardless what our children do, however, there isn't evidence coddling and concern for this 13 year old child was ever tried, simply the father's statement he had warned her, so no logical reason to interrogate me what should be done in this instance when coddling fails, however, in general, yes. I think when we are responsible for someone, a child, that yes. If we can't manage their behavior we should ask for help from someone who might be able to. And a mental health professional would be a place to start.

It's especially sad to me that apparently the girl could have tried to be involved in student government but "didn't have parental permission". If she is doing things she shouldn't during unsupervised time would lead me to push her toward supervised activities. Perhaps she didn't ask, perhaps she was refused permission. It's sad though, that her father saw her as so bad when apparently she was not a troublemaker at school.

She was a child, in the US by definition incompetent to make choices or manage herself, by definition not responsible, and her father was supposed to be responsible for her wellbeing, so when she died.....yes that reflects on him, not her. It's what we do in the US. She wouldn't even be allowed to ask for mental health care in many places without his approval. She was his responsibility. And yes I think a mental health professional would have been something to try for the father, and maybe he did, but my point is.....she had no rights for herself.

Anyway thank you for answering Fnord. I guess the father's tone and actions did not make you angry. They made me angry. They made most of us here angry. And it is a very sad thing this child was so hopeless she took her life. So many of us here have thought of that or had a family member who did. So many of us have been tormented by someone or watched our family member go through being tormented. It is very sad how much suffering human beings inflict on one another.

There is not much that compassion can do for any dead person. There is not much that "blaming and shaming" can do against the living, either.

Simply put, planning a murder or a suicide implies mental competency, even if the murderer or the suicide-er is only thirteen. If a child can be tried as an adult, and found responsible for pre-meditated murder, then it stands to reason that a child can be responsible for planning his or her own suicide.

Unless the child has been previously found mentally incompetent, that is. Then she should have been under more constant supervision and/or medication to prevent such irrational behavior.

Compassion may help someone who is still living and thinking he or she must kill him or herself. And in no way does planning anyone's death argue for competency.

I agree with your last point, though. If one feels one's child can't be trusted, it is appropriate to supervise closely to prevent irrational behavior.

This captcha process really sucks big time. In order to post the following, I have to try to post it, prove that I'm real by entering a captcha, go to a screen where all of my writing is gone, post this complaint, and then hope that it will let me edit it and add in what I'm trying to post.

If this keeps up, I'll be saying Adios pretty soon.

---

Nope.

Okay. Here is what I was going to post.

1) It appears that she was punished for posting selfies of herself in a sports bra and leggings. What I read doesn't mention anything else that she might have been wering.

2) She wrote several suicide notes and said that it wasn't because of the punishment. Rather, it was apparently because she felt guilty and didn't want to shame her family.

3) Her father did not post the videos -- she did.

---

And I'm out of here for a while. I hope when I get back that the broken captcha crap will be gone. if not, then it isn't worth the trouble trying to participate in discussions here any more.

Yes. When shame and guilt are promoted sometimes it works and the person shamed feels guilt and shame. If it's bad enough, sometimes that makes the person want to die. There's little point to blaming the victim for reacting with negative emotion about herself rather than compliance. That's how people are. Make someone feel bad enough they may want to die.

Make a father feel enough anger and disappointment, and he may give you a bad haircut.

So, which one over-reacted the most?

I am not saying parents are generally responsible for their children's suffering, just responding to this one video. Why do you need so much to hold this child responsible?

Because she was either responsible for her own actions, or she wasn't.

If she wasn't, then her parents should have supervised her more closely.

If she was, then her choice to die was her responsibility alone.

It is wrong to hold parents, classmates, and society at fault for the actions of one independently-minded person. However, it is right for even children to learn that their actions have consequences.

How is it that many children survive to thrive after abuse has left them scarred and disabled, but something as harmless as a bad haircut drives others over the edge?

How is it justifiable to blame everyone but the person who chose death over life?

I don't want to put myself through watching it again, but when I watched it, it seemed like the father had a mocking tone in his voice. So I didn't think it was so much a response to a haircut as his attitude toward her and disappointment and apparent lack of empathy.

I agree with you about supervising....I think if one is worried someone isn't behaving responsibly and one is responsible one should supervise. His mocking tone seemed to be not only cruel or nasty but to be saying I can't stop you so I'll do this instead of spending time with you or making sure other responsible people are with you. That's just how I took it.