13 Russian nationals indicted for meddling in 2016 election
22 Feb 2018, 12:52 pm
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
22 Feb 2018, 1:18 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Apparently it’s time to stop calling it Russian meddling:
https://www.salon.com/2018/02/21/it-is- ... -meddling/
https://www.salon.com/2018/02/21/it-is- ... -meddling/
It was being called collusion and then got downgraded to being called meddling. The facts of that article a few days old. The rhetoric of the article and Salon is too far to the left to be taken seriously. Just like something too far to the right shouldn't be taken seriously.
Umm, the facts of the article are pretty serious and should be taken seriously.
I would love serious facts that I could take seriously. I've been desiring to see them to come forth for over a year now. However so far each new bombshell has been a dud delivered with lots of overly biased sensationalistic substandard journalism.
goldfish21 wrote:
The more you defended the orange one the more it seems you may be suffering from a little cognitive dissonance.. and that when he’s dethroned & hopefully jailed for treason, you might just be heard shouting “FAKE NEWS!” from beneath your MAGA hat.
Was that a meltdown?
22 Feb 2018, 1:43 pm
JohnPowell wrote:
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
If only Sanders had won. That's what people should really be saying. Instead of wishing for one nightmare in place of another.
Old joke during the campain, Q: if Trump and Clinton were stranded on a desert island, who would survive?
A: America.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,782
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2018, 3:13 pm
JohnPowell wrote:
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
We actually have the Electoral College because the founding fathers were afraid of direct democracy. It was in place to keep someone like Trump from being elected.
As a matter of fact, I was a Bernie guy. I consider how he was screwed out of the nomination by those chicken heads at the DNC to be a travesty. That said, Clinton was still her party's candidate, and so what happened next with Trump and his Russian friends was still a travesty. Plenty of us don't like the Electoral College, and wish we would switch to having a direct democratic election for President, as does every other non-parliamentarian democracy.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
22 Feb 2018, 5:59 pm
EzraS wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
If only Sanders had won. That's what people should really be saying. Instead of wishing for one nightmare in place of another.
Old joke during the campain, Q: if Trump and Clinton were stranded on a desert island, who would survive?
A: America.
Haha exactly.
Trouble is, tribalist people don't care about justice. Once Sanders was cheated there was a bit of anger but then most of them just ditched any morality and supported a cheating monster killer because she was on their team and they hated Trump.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
22 Feb 2018, 6:06 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
We actually have the Electoral College because the founding fathers were afraid of direct democracy. It was in place to keep someone like Trump from being elected.
As a matter of fact, I was a Bernie guy. I consider how he was screwed out of the nomination by those chicken heads at the DNC to be a travesty. That said, Clinton was still her party's candidate, and so what happened next with Trump and his Russian friends was still a travesty. Plenty of us don't like the Electoral College, and wish we would switch to having a direct democratic election for President, as does every other non-parliamentarian democracy.
Maybe Putin went back in time and and stopped the founding fathers from creating a popular vote to stop Clinton winning. I hope no one from Salon or CNN sees this, they might go with that story.
"That said...", no she wasn't the party's candidate, cheating by fraud should have disqualified her.
Haha apart from nothing did happen with those fantasy stories about Trump and magical Russians. Trump won because the opponent was worse, it is time people face that rather than making up crazy conspiracy theories with zero evidence. If this carries on til the next election, Trump could win again. People on started talking about the popular vote after Clinton lost. Just excuse after excuse.
_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,782
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2018, 6:33 pm
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Also, Bill-
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
No, the US doesn't have a "popular vote" system, and that is to stop certain states controlling the election. Also, everyone knows that Clinton should never have been the candidate as she cheated Sanders out of the position. If you care so much about your "democracy" you should be calling for that to be investigated as well as Clinton trying to hack the election.
We actually have the Electoral College because the founding fathers were afraid of direct democracy. It was in place to keep someone like Trump from being elected.
As a matter of fact, I was a Bernie guy. I consider how he was screwed out of the nomination by those chicken heads at the DNC to be a travesty. That said, Clinton was still her party's candidate, and so what happened next with Trump and his Russian friends was still a travesty. Plenty of us don't like the Electoral College, and wish we would switch to having a direct democratic election for President, as does every other non-parliamentarian democracy.
Maybe Putin went back in time and and stopped the founding fathers from creating a popular vote to stop Clinton winning. I hope no one from Salon or CNN sees this, they might go with that story.
"That said...", no she wasn't the party's candidate, cheating by fraud should have disqualified her.
Haha apart from nothing did happen with those fantasy stories about Trump and magical Russians. Trump won because the opponent was worse, it is time people face that rather than making up crazy conspiracy theories with zero evidence. If this carries on til the next election, Trump could win again. People on started talking about the popular vote after Clinton lost. Just excuse after excuse.
No, people have been talking about switching to the popular vote for a long time now.
While Clinton and her DNC allies had cheated Bernie, there was actually nothing illegal about it, as the DNC is hardly an arm of the government but a private organization, and can conduct business as unethically as they wish as long as there's no violation of the law.
Sure, Clinton was a lousy candidate, but the popular vote proves more Americans prefered her to that human Cheeto and his Russian friends.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
22 Feb 2018, 6:47 pm
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
22 Feb 2018, 6:52 pm
VegetableMan wrote:
This whole story is a joke. So, let me get this straight. A few memes on Facebook swayed the election in favor of Trump. It's official, folks! Americans have lost any capacity for critical thought whatsoever. This narrative is only being pushed because the Dems hope to do well in the upcoming mid-term elections. They need to deflect attention from who is really responsible for putting an idiot like Trump in power: Hillary and the D.N.C.
Their is no true journalism left in the mainstream media; just corporate shills like Rachael Maddow. She is fine with distributing propaganda on a daily basis because she makes $30,000 a day doing it!
Which leads me to another point. How did things get to this point? I was watching an interview with Jessie Ventura a few days ago, and he proposed an excellent theory. When the highly rated '60 Minutes' began to get big ratings during it's first year, the network moguls started to realize that news could be highly profitable. Now they were willing to put big money into broadcast news. Now news is just another form of entertainment that is forced to push the narrative provided to them by the corporatists that run the country. It's a sad state of affairs.
Their is no true journalism left in the mainstream media; just corporate shills like Rachael Maddow. She is fine with distributing propaganda on a daily basis because she makes $30,000 a day doing it!
Which leads me to another point. How did things get to this point? I was watching an interview with Jessie Ventura a few days ago, and he proposed an excellent theory. When the highly rated '60 Minutes' began to get big ratings during it's first year, the network moguls started to realize that news could be highly profitable. Now they were willing to put big money into broadcast news. Now news is just another form of entertainment that is forced to push the narrative provided to them by the corporatists that run the country. It's a sad state of affairs.
Exactly! This whole story really is a joke, a sick pathetic one at that! All we ever hear are rumours, no real evidence is ever presented, and I suppose it really is just one big mighty coincidence that these accusations seriously disrupt the proper functioning of the Trump administration and distract the ignorant plebs from the matters that actually matter. You know, like Ms. Clinton's part in the utter decimation of Libya, for which she has yet to be held accountable. "We came, we saw, he died" - Ha, ha, ha, hilarious! Stupid psychopathic b***h!
22 Feb 2018, 6:59 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Apparently it’s time to stop calling it Russian meddling:
https://www.salon.com/2018/02/21/it-is- ... -meddling/
https://www.salon.com/2018/02/21/it-is- ... -meddling/
It was being called collusion and then got downgraded to being called meddling. The facts of that article a few days old. The rhetoric of the article and Salon is too far to the left to be taken seriously. Just like something too far to the right shouldn't be taken seriously.
Umm, the facts of the article are pretty serious and should be taken seriously.
The more you defended the orange one the more it seems you may be suffering from a little cognitive dissonance.. and that when he’s dethroned & hopefully jailed for treason, you might just be heard shouting “FAKE NEWS!” from beneath your MAGA hat.
"The facts of the article..." Well, that's just it. Are there any facts within that article?
"The orange one..." Oh, you mean Mr. Trump, the President. It's funny, but those on the Left of the spectrum would never have referred to Mr. Obama as being "the black one". That would have been (rightly) considered to be racist, but it's okay to make fun of someone who happens to be white (or orange, or whatever) because they are people you don't agree with.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,782
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2018, 7:54 pm
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
22 Feb 2018, 8:14 pm
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".
If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.
The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,782
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2018, 8:47 pm
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".
If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.
The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
22 Feb 2018, 9:00 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".
If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.
The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.
I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.
_________________
What do you call a hot dog in a gangster suit?
Oscar Meyer Lansky
22 Feb 2018, 9:07 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.
There are plenty of people saying the same thing who aren't wearing conservative tinted glasses. Personally I've been hungry for something in all of this to make me say holy s**t and start reaching for popcorn. I feel like the guy in that movie yelling, "show me the money!" or that crabby old lady asking "where's the beef?!". Do you really think I care if Trump fries? Just don't invite me to a barbeque when the coals keep going out while I'm starving for something to sink my teeth into.
Last edited by EzraS on 22 Feb 2018, 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,782
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2018, 9:08 pm
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Umm... What about this?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=American+medd ... =hg&ia=web
You people DARE to accuse Russia of "meddling" in elections when the U.S. has been doing it since 1945? Is it a case of, "We can do whatever we like, because we're the Almighty USA, and we're always right because 'might makes right', and we're special, exceptional, and God's country"? Does that explain the disgusting hypocrisy?
That and saying, "that was different, was done for different reasons, yeah we did that to the Russians but hey that was Yeltson..." and the most used disclaimer, "that was a long time ago and we don't do that sort of espionage anymore wink wink".
If fact we do look like whining hypocrite crybabies, considering our history and reputation for extensive election and political meddling and tampering. The response to that is, it's unpatriotic to point out such facts.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, and we paid for that meddling whenever it backfired. Just the same, that hardly means we should just sit back and let someone else screw with our elections.
The problem with this case is that it has always looked like and continues to look like a complete farce. I feel sorry for Mueller, the guy has probably aged ten years already.
It only looks like a farce through a conservative spectrum.
I am primarily progressive and it looks like a farce to me.
Mueller and the other feds looking into this are themselves pretty conservative Republicans. For them, of all people, to investigate a Republican President is in itself significant that there's something there.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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