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MotherKnowsBest
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16 Sep 2011, 7:20 am

Hold on to you hats, here we go again.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... utism.html



visagrunt
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16 Sep 2011, 12:59 pm

In other news, my coffee mug is linked to earthquakes.

We had one last week, so it must be true.


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DC
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16 Sep 2011, 1:22 pm

The Daily Mail has taken up a heroic anti-science position on a lot of subjects, global warming and MMR are two that particularly spring to mind that are very long running.



MotherKnowsBest
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16 Sep 2011, 1:23 pm

Despite your lack of evidence, I find myself believing you. From this point on I will campaign tirelessly for an international ban on coffee mugs. Someone has to think of the children.



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16 Sep 2011, 1:28 pm

There is a strong statistical link between coffee mugs breaking and earthquakes. :wink:


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Janissy
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16 Sep 2011, 2:18 pm

I notice there was no control group in the study. They found 70 out of 82 children with regressive autism and bowel disease that they tested had vaccine-strain measles virus. What they haven't tested- and hopefully will in the near future because it's relevent- is how often the vaccine-strain measles virus shows up in children without autism and with or without bowel disease. Until they do that, they don't know if there is any link because they don't know how often this happens in the general vaccinated population.

If it also happens as frequently in the children with bowel disease and no autism, then the link is to bowel disease, not autism. If it also happens as frequently in children with neither bowel disease nor autism, then there is no link to either.
If it happens at this rate exclusively in children with autism, with or without bowel disease (and they need to check that too), then there is a link to autism.

It isn't possible to tell where the link is if it exists until they check these 4 groups:

1)children with autism and bowel disease

2)children with autism but no bowel disease

3)children with bowel disease but no autism

4)children with neither autism nor bowel disease

So far they have only checked the first group but it looks like they are only partway through checking it (having checked 82 of the 275 they have checked). But without checking control groups, they have no way of knowing whether they have found an actual link to autism, bowel disease or merely a previously unkown but unimportant fact about measles vaccination.



aghogday
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16 Sep 2011, 2:53 pm

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/scientists7.html

The daily mail also reported this exact same story earlier this year; the same information from this specific research has been repeated since 2006 when the comments were originally made. The research is real, but it was never peer reviewed or published. The same person taking credit for the story in the daily mail took credit for it in the UK telegraph back in 2006:

Quote:
US scientists back autism link to MMR
By Beezy Marsh and Sally Beck
(Filed: 28/05/2006)

The measles virus has been found in the guts of children with a form of autism, renewing fears over the safety of the MMR jab. American researchers have revealed that 85 per cent of samples taken from autistic children with bowel disorders contain the virus. The strain is the same as the one used in the measles, mumps and rubella triple vaccine. The findings will spark fresh concern about MMR, because they back theories of a causal link between the jab, autism and painful gut disorders suffered by a number of autistic children.

The study replicates findings made by the gastroenterologist Dr Andrew Wakefield in 1998 and Prof John O'Leary, a pathologist, in 2002. Parents say their children were developing normally until they had the MMR jab, given when a child is between 12- and 18-months-old. The children now suffer from regressive autism. One theory is that the virus passes through the gut, causing damage, and into the bloodstream, from where it is able to attack the brain.


In the last two identical articles presented in the daily mail, they present it as happening recently, and notice they block any comments on the article, so people in the know won't be able to clarify that the news is 5 years old.

The story is been presented as yesterdays news for five years now, I guess it may potentially continue into the distant future.

Is the daily mail, something like the online version of the National Enquirer?

I can't imagine a trusted online publication putting out the same story over a course of time, which suggests an event happened in the recent past rather than years ago.



aghogday
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16 Sep 2011, 3:21 pm

The following link gives a good detailed report on the whole situation regarding the ongoing saga of this repeated story. More, importantly it gives the researcher, Dr. Walker's, clarification on the research.

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2011/01/the-daily-mail-uk-continuing-sorry-contribution-to-fear-uncertainty-and-doubt-vaccine-fears.html

Quote:
The Daily Mail (UK) continuing sorry contribution to fear, uncertainty, doubt, and vaccine fears
The article that won't die: Sally Beck's "Scientists fear MMR link to autism," published in the Daily Mail on May 28, 2006.

That's right, 2006.




Quote:
Walker says the new research does not support the connection, and he notes that the results have not even been published in a peer-reviewed journal. “Even if we showed association (between measles virus and bowel disease) and we published it in a peer-reviewed journal, the conclusion will be simply that there is measles virus in the gut of a large number of children who have regressive autism and bowel disease. End of story.

“We haven’t done anything to demonstrate that the measles virus is causing autism or even causing bowel disease.”

Walker explains that exploring the causes of chronic bowel disease in autistic children is the major impetus for his research. “There are lots of viruses in the gut, and any one of them could be causing inflammation. If it truly is from a vaccine and this virus causes inflammation and a chronic bowel condition in some susceptible children, then that’s something that needs to be known.”



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16 Sep 2011, 3:27 pm

aghogday wrote:

Is the daily mail, something like the online version of the National Enquirer?


The Daily Wail / Daily Hate is a newspaper that supported fascism and basically exists to stir up hate and anger in the population regardless of the reality of the situation.

It is best to ignore anything that is published in it, it makes the Murdoch press look like the voice of reason...



Jellybean
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16 Sep 2011, 4:11 pm

DC wrote:
aghogday wrote:

Is the daily mail, something like the online version of the National Enquirer?


The Daily Wail / Daily Hate is a newspaper that supported fascism and basically exists to stir up hate and anger in the population regardless of the reality of the situation.

It is best to ignore anything that is published in it, it makes the Murdoch press look like the voice of reason...


I call it the daily fail... It is over opinionated and at times quite racist as well so I no longer read it. My brain thanks me for cutting the mail out of my life!


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17 Sep 2011, 2:17 am

An active infection would easily be detected in the person's antibodies. If a virus is sitting in a person's digestive tract without attacking any cells to reproduce, it is not doing anything and is not an issue. Even if it is reproducing, they are still a long way from showing any effect on brain activity much less showing a link to autism.


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17 Sep 2011, 8:36 pm

DC wrote:
The Daily Mail has taken up a heroic anti-science position on a lot of subjects, global warming and MMR are two that particularly spring to mind that are very long running.


MMGW has pretty much been proven wrong now by CERN.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... nge-shock/



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17 Sep 2011, 8:42 pm

John_Browning wrote:
An active infection would easily be detected in the person's antibodies. If a virus is sitting in a person's digestive tract without attacking any cells to reproduce, it is not doing anything and is not an issue. Even if it is reproducing, they are still a long way from showing any effect on brain activity much less showing a link to autism.


are you sure this is a typical active infection they are referring to?



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17 Sep 2011, 10:19 pm

oldmantime wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
An active infection would easily be detected in the person's antibodies. If a virus is sitting in a person's digestive tract without attacking any cells to reproduce, it is not doing anything and is not an issue. Even if it is reproducing, they are still a long way from showing any effect on brain activity much less showing a link to autism.


are you sure this is a typical active infection they are referring to?

No. If it was active, they would show symptoms. If a virus just laying there not doing anything, it does not contribute to symptoms. It eventually gets eliminated with waste products or gets attacked by the immune system and goes away. I'd be really curious to see where their funding is coming from.


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oldmantime
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17 Sep 2011, 10:21 pm

Janissy wrote:
I notice there was no control group in the study. They found 70 out of 82 children with regressive autism and bowel disease that they tested had vaccine-strain measles virus. What they haven't tested- and hopefully will in the near future because it's relevent- is how often the vaccine-strain measles virus shows up in children without autism and with or without bowel disease. Until they do that, they don't know if there is any link because they don't know how often this happens in the general vaccinated population.

If it also happens as frequently in the children with bowel disease and no autism, then the link is to bowel disease, not autism. If it also happens as frequently in children with neither bowel disease nor autism, then there is no link to either.
If it happens at this rate exclusively in children with autism, with or without bowel disease (and they need to check that too), then there is a link to autism.

It isn't possible to tell where the link is if it exists until they check these 4 groups:

1)children with autism and bowel disease

2)children with autism but no bowel disease

3)children with bowel disease but no autism

4)children with neither autism nor bowel disease

So far they have only checked the first group but it looks like they are only partway through checking it (having checked 82 of the 275 they have checked). But without checking control groups, they have no way of knowing whether they have found an actual link to autism, bowel disease or merely a previously unkown but unimportant fact about measles vaccination.


is 2 necessary since no one is claiming that this may be the ONLY cause?