Job applications dropped on occupy Chicago protestors

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Again, if you can link me to stats from a more reliable source which show opposite trends, I will put my hand up and say I'm wrong on this particular point.



The corporations create employment and put money back into the economy. Public services are, from the perspective of governments, money down the drain which they'll never recover. It therefore makes financial sense. Again, they are doing the same thing here. I ain't complaining. It's what they gotta do to get the country out of the mess it's in.



I agree with you here. But either extreme is bad - extreme capitalism and extreme socialism are both bad systems. You need to introduce a few elements of socialism into a capitalist system to make sure it stays efficient. Personally, I think the UK went too far with this - the benefits are so high, many people don't think it's worth going back to work. But people who are unemployed do need a basic amount of money with which to purchase food and shelter until they can get another job, and of course, health care should be available to all. Again, I think the UK does this badly - the NHS is very inefficient. In Germany, health care is all private, but if you're too poor to afford your care, you get it subsidised. That's an ideal system as far as I'm concerned.



See above. I do agree with part of what you're saying.



Working at McDonald's makes you money so you can fuel the economy and, of course, support yourself as a person. Standing in the street might get you a few seconds of TV time, that's it. Besides, it's better to have a problem (not having enough money) then do something to fix it (working at McDonald's) than it is to have that problem and simply stand around complaining about it (as the protesters are doing).

Again, if you can link me to stats from a more reliable source which show opposite trends, I will put my hand up and say I'm wrong on this particular point.

Working at McDonald's makes you money so you can fuel the economy and, of course, support yourself as a person. Standing in the street might get you a few seconds of TV time, that's it.

Besides, it's better to have a problem (not having enough money) then do something to fix it (working at McDonald's) than it is to have that problem and simply stand around complaining about it (as the protesters are doing).

Ok so public services are money down the drain because they help people who are struggling, but throwing more money at huge corporations in the hope that it will create enough jobs while cutting public services is money for a good cause? I think not. I don't see how making things even more difficult for those who are already struggling just to pay rent, put food on the table ect while giving the huge corporations a huge break will fix this mess.......unless they're thinking hopefully more people on the bottom will die due to lack of medical care, being unable to afford food ect and so there will be less people for the resources to be split between.

Yes working at Mcdonalds is a way to make money, fuel the economy and sit in your little box watching t.v ignoring everything that goes on in the world.......how does that change anything? How does that make anything better.......its about time people started looking around and realising there is more to life then fueling the economy....what are we just parts of a freaking machine? Having a job does not fix what is going on currently.

One doesn't need opposing statistics to say that a set of statistics are unreliable.

Ironic, ahistorical, fatalistic. I don't think that the Civil Rights marches could be considered a few seconds of tv time, and to say that they were not related would be quite specious, as the whole reason was that they were angry with the system. Protest has a long and illustrious history in America. As for fixing the structural deficiency of the US economy by going to work I would rather fix an engine that's broke rather than pour more petrol in to it.

Even worse is that you don't know how many of those people are employed down there. It's still an ivory throne approach being taken here, assuming that these people are just lazy and not doing the right thing, which is code for not doing what the top class want them to do.

I don't believe that the protestors are standing around because they don't have jobs per se. I think they are standing around because of the root cause, and that is untrammelled crony capitalism that has so far been propped up by government tax and has far too much government and societal influence. Now don't tell me the bailouts were necessary, because they were. But the fact is that the financial and high corporate system of the USA is far too concerned by what can only be described as three things: monopolistic, monolithic and megalomaniacal.

On the other hand, if you put money in public services, you will never get that money back. It's dead capital. You ain't gonna see it again.

Now, remember that the US has massive debts, and maybe you can start to understand why it's logical for the government to do what they're doing at the moment.

My friend who works at McDonald's isn't how you describe at all. In fact, she wants to travel the world. But she needs money to do that, don't she?

And standing on a street won't make anything better either, especially when there's no clear message you're actually trying to fight for. You'll get media coverage, yes, but nothing will get done as a result of you standing outside for a bit. The most productive thing the protestors can do is fill out the goddamn job applications.

I've already agreed that the ideal system would provide basic benefits for the unemployed and health care for everyone, so I won't argue that.

However, at the same time, imagine for a moment you are budgeting for the government. Now, if corps have more money, they will directly fuel the economy, sell goods, and continue to provide employment, then they will give you money back in tax when you can afford to make it higher (during the next economic boom).

On the other hand, if you put money in public services, you will never get that money back. It's dead capital. You ain't gonna see it again.

Now, remember that the US has massive debts, and maybe you can start to understand why it's logical for the government to do what they're doing at the moment.



My friend who works at McDonald's isn't how you describe at all. In fact, she wants to travel the world. But she needs money to do that, don't she?

And standing on a street won't make anything better either, especially when there's no clear message you're actually trying to fight for. You'll get media coverage, yes, but nothing will get done as a result of you standing outside for a bit. The most productive thing the protestors can do is fill out the goddamn job applications.

What? That contradicts basic economic theory. Have you ever heard of the circular flow of income? It certainly doesn't mean what you are saying.

Agreed, but why exactly are they cutting programmes that help lead to jobs and so forth? It makes about as much sense as trimming muscle to reduce your weight whilst ignoring the pounds being packed on.

I don't thin travelling the world is Sweetleaf's concern, or in the slightest bit relevant.

No it isn't. A more productive use of their time is digging out an entrenched and dangerous system that eventualy collapses in on itself because of the collective incompetence that is part and parcel with personal greed which then needs a bailout from US taxpayers, which is wasted money. To say that protests do nothing is a hilarious assertion, especially in this day and age. The object is not jobs, but a system that doesn't nearly die every decade and push down the people below into economic insignificance.

Yes the messege is very clear the citizens of this country are not as important as fueling the economy or producing products...and I never described how it would be to work there just that it does not solve anything. People have to express their dissatisfaction with the system some how and protesting is one of the legal ways to do that.....so why shouldn't they? Everyone just wants people to shut up and get on with their lives which I find a little disturbing.

Not to mention its kind of hard to live on minimum wages, which is what they would get.......I guess the most productive thing people can do is shut up and ignore all the flaws in the system because the system is apparently our god now.

You can't say one set of stats is unreliable then base your assumptions on nothing.

But saying, "I think those stats are unreliable because I dislike the government so I'm right be default" won't fly.

You can't compare Civil Rights to a bunch of idealists who want everything for free. You really can't.

Read what I said about 100% capitalism. I do agree that elements of socialism must be present, but at the same time, the economy should be mostly capitalist, because extreme socialism, again, does not work, and history shows this.

Fair point, but they're certainly not being useful assets to society by advocating a system which history has proven ineffective over and over.

See above. I do agree extreme capitalism is the right way to go about things. But extreme socialism is worse.

He inferred people would work at McDonald's then "sit in their boxes watching TV ignoring the outside world." That was to prove this bit false.

They have the right to protest and are, of course, free to use it. But they'd get listened to a lot more if they were advocating something more sensible and clear.



Again, I've said that the current system isn't ideal, but socialism is in fact worse.

Well they are fed up with the system because more then a few people are pissed off that 1% of the population controls most of the wealth and its starting to look kinda like they're screwing the majority over which should anger people. And if socialism where ran correctly it would actually have quite a few benifits but humans give in pretty easy to corruption which is usually why it ends up not working. So if neither system is ideal, logic says maybe its time to try some new ideas or something...because the current captialist system we have is not doing such a great job either.

Surely the logical solution is regulated capitalism, then?

That is what we have, and it does not seem to be working for the majority of people.