NOT GOOD, Connecticut shooter was diagnosed with Aspergers..

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Lintar
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22 Feb 2013, 8:31 am

John_Browning wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Well, that really depends on the kind of firearm really. If it is an AK-47 or M-16 then by the time you have disarmed the offender he will have caused quite a large number of deaths. An old shotgun, or any gun that can fire only one round at a time, will not be anywhere near as lethal. Then of course there is the situation itself, and whether or not there is anyone nearby who can physically overpower the shooter. Someone with a knife may or may not know 'how to inflict lethal wounds', but if the past is any guide to go by most of those who go on a rampage (with a gun that is) are not the most intelligent, just the most deranged.

Who knows, you could be right, but if guns are freely and abundantly available, then the killer wont select a knife instead; that's just not going to happen.

The AK-47s on the civilian market do fire one round at a time, and A real M-16 is almost never available. You have been watching too many movies and too much news. Even the military doesn't normally use the full auto setting (that most of their guns have). The parts that make the difference between semi-auto and full auto are different and requires considerable metalworking skills to convert.


Okay, I'll stop watching movies. The news is always depressing, so I'll give that up too. I suppose my lack of knowledge about guns stems from the fact that I can't think of any good reason to own one, and I can't stand them.



marshall
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22 Feb 2013, 12:05 pm

Lintar wrote:
marshall wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Lintar wrote:
... a knife can be far more easily overpowered than a shooter.


Not really. A person could massacre a couple of classrooms of kids and a few teachers with a hunting knife. You just need to be determined and know how to inflict lethal wounds. On a whole, it'd be harder to rush a determined knife wielder than one with a firearm; you'll always take casualties when rushing a firearm user, but if there's more than a couple doing such in close quarters (which these things tend to be), then the firearm wielder would be easier to rush. You can't really rush a knife wielder unarmed (improvised weapons are fairly useless here); even a handful of people won't be able to (they can, but they'll readily experience fatal wounds at arm distance; within that distance and a firearm user is disarmed by a handful of people). Knifes never get the respect they deserve.

I'm assuming the firearm and knife wielders are equally skilled and determined.


I think you're stretching it here. There's no way I'd ever try take on a knife wielder hand-to-hand, but I'd probably consider throwing whatever is available at the assailant, chairs, tables, books, etc... mainly to distract the person and give myself and others a chance to get away. If the assailant had a gun I'd be in immediate danger at any distance within sight. The only situation where I'd have a better chance with the gun wielder is if I happened to be immediately next to the assailant when the weapon was drawn and the barrel wasn't initially pointed at me.


Yes, you are precisely right, and this is the point that I was trying to make. A man with a knife would be difficult to disarm hand-to-hand, but even so you could still distract them, throw objects at them, and generally do other things to unnerve them. That would obviously not work with someone who had a gun; he would just pull the trigger, and you would be dead. Then he would pull the trigger again, killing someone else nearby. Why can't the pro-gun advocates see this, or do they willingly choose not to?


Dillogic pretty much admits that the best thing to do in the case of a gun wielding assailant is to make yourself a moving target, i.e. run away. Charging directly at the assailant to try and take him/her down might save other people's lives but it would result in almost certain death for you. The only way it would work is if you coordinated so that multiple people charged at once from different directions. I just don't think ordinary people would have the psychological ability to do that in the moment. Fear and self-preservation instinct would come first. Would hardened soldiers with combat training be able to pull something like that off? Maybe. Ordinary people caught completely off guard? Doubtful.



mikassyna
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rommelspargel
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01 Jun 2013, 8:31 am

Well every time something like this happens I wonder out loud why this doesn't occur more...Of course it's tragic and stuff. Society prepares the crime the criminal commits it...Luckily in Holland it's almost impossible to buy a gun. Otherwise it would certainly happen more. Not long ago there was a massacre here in Alphen on the Rhine.

Would it be fair to say that ASpies are more prone to violent behaviour as in mass killings described above. Percentually higher than other possible risk groups? It seems to me that when someone starts an action like that and later on they find out that this individual liked first person shooters but so do millions more who never hurt a fly.

Another interesting phenomena is why kill all those people and then commit suicide and why not get it over with and save those others all the pain.



chris5000
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01 Jun 2013, 2:11 pm

guns are not the cause but just a means to the end
on the same day of sandy hook a guy in china used a knife to kill 20 or so school children and their teacher.



Raptor
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01 Jun 2013, 11:47 pm

Some people seem unable to grasp the simple fact that it takes a gunman to stop a gunman and all the well-wishing, hand-wringing, and law making won't do anything but leave people vulnerable.


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neilson_wheels
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02 Jun 2013, 6:35 am

As a nation you don't really have a choice any more.



BuyerBeware
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05 Jun 2013, 11:08 am

Good grief.

Here we are, arguing about gun control while the problem goes merrily on.

He's not writing about Asperger's per se, but check out Thom Hartmann.

Now, he's definitely a liberal. He might be a quack. But he's spot on when he talks about what happens to someone if they grow up hearing that they're broken and bad and need to be this other way and that other way instead.

Adam Lanza is one of the logical outcomes of that kind of life-- exactly the kind of life someone in their early 20s with ASD probably endured, as that has been the model for treatment since it hit the DSM.

Adam Lanza is, thankfully, the minority logical outcome-- most people broken down by that attitude end up alcoholics and drug addicts, homeless or drawing disability whether they really need it or not, or medicated mindless and drooling all over themselves on the street or in their parents' house or in a group home somewhere. Most of the victims of that mindset end up with a life half lived-- the kind of thing a well-meaning therapist tried to force on me before I decided I'd rather be dead and lucked into some good help-- thinking themselves worthless and possibly ending up as ODs or suicides.

That shouldn't be either.

Here we sit debating gun control, debating whether we're all psychos or not, getting mad at each other and feeling sorry for ourselves, and the problem goes right on.

Next time someone does something stupid and ASDs get demonized by the talking heads, we'll do it again.

I hope we're doing this because we don't KNOW what to do, and not because it's just easier.


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raisedbyignorance
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06 Jun 2013, 5:57 pm

^ I'm afraid it is because it is just easier. These conversations after school shootings have become nothing new and sound like a broken record at this point with no real solutions ever coming about.

And now it seems that AS will become synonymous with mass shootings as Muslims have become with terrorist attacks.

This ignorance and stupidity that will continue to occur after each tragedy is going to the be the second worst thing to the causalities involved.



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11 Jun 2013, 3:50 am

Doesn't seem to be much in the way of releases.

Some of the new stuff, was:

No medication in system
had a huge list of mass killers and the weapons used in his room (that's an AS thingy there)
had a lot of bullying at school

That's about it.



raisedbyignorance
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12 Jun 2013, 7:01 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Doesn't seem to be much in the way of releases.

Some of the new stuff, was:

No medication in system
had a huge list of mass killers and the weapons used in his room (that's an AS thingy there)
had a lot of bullying at school

That's about it.


Is that second one meant to be sarcastic?

I know some Aspies are interested in the stories of mass murderers but studying their weaponry and the like is rather excessive.